Low/Middle/High Income for Asheville (town, seniors, good)

[Asheville Native]

Originally Posted by VBmom

I think the problem arose here because of the lack of industry. So many are anti growth to the point that they are causing the town to die.

It's not so much the people that don't want growth or industry, it is the heavy hand of the tax man, (State and local) that has driven business away from here.

I have a friend that had a going business, but the bottom line wasn't what it should be. His CPA told him to pickup and move his business to South Carolina if he wanted to stay in business. About 2 years ago, he did just that, offering some sweet incentives to his key employees to move with the company to the Greer area in SC. Most of them did, and without the heavy hand of state regulations, fees, and taxes, combined with the greedy little tax and spend city of Asheville taking his money, his business is now where he wants it to be, profitable for a change.

[VBmom]

Originally Posted by Asheville Native

It's not so much the people that don't want growth or industry, it is the heavy hand of the tax man, (State and local) that has driven business away from here.

I have a friend that had a going business, but the bottom line wasn't what it should be. His CPA told him to pickup and move his business to South Carolina if he wanted to stay in business. About 2 years ago, he did just that, offering some sweet incentives to his key employees to move with the company to the Greer area in SC. Most of them did, and without the heavy hand of state regulations, fees, and taxes, combined with the greedy little tax and spend city of Asheville taking his money, his business is now where he wants it to be, profitable for a change.

In my area, a very large and vocal portion of the population is anti growth of any kind. AND the local government is taxing us to death as well.

[gemkeeper]

Originally Posted by VBmom

I think the problem arose here because of the lack of industry. So many are anti growth to the point that they are causing the town to die. I don't mean to sound like I hate retired people. Most worked hard all their life and only want a peaceful existence for the rest. It's just that some forget the rest of us have to work, raise our kids and have a life of our own. Without decent paying jobs,(and here I am talking about $50K plus) Most of the middle class will HAVE to leave.

I think the answer is MANAGED Growth as opposed to NO growth. Maybe it's a Pollyanna way of looking at things, but I do believe managed growth is possible and that all growth is not bad. I am not talking about a condo on every mountain top. What I am saying is you must keep jobs for the middle class. Service jobs are, for the most part, not middle class. IMO. You will have a hard time raising kids on $10. an hour. A town needs more than doctors, lawyers, and waiters.

I love Asheville. My grandparents have owned a place in Black Mountian since before I was born. I grew up spending many wonderful summers and Christmas' there. I lived in Asheville in the mid and late 80's and have wanted to move back ever since. I hate to see some of the growth as much as the natives do. I am just saying be careful what you wish for. As my grandmother would have said. "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water."

We are retiring, not because we hit 65 and it's time to kick back- not tooo high, now - but because my husband hit that magic age of 50 about 12 yrs.ago when the company he worked for (Read: all companies) wanted the young college graduate who would start for half of what they had to pay my husband. So, at merger time, good-by experienced bald one, and hello, cheap young hot-shot that knows a-nothin'. And, sadly, in the last 11 yrs. since, this is our 4th move and it gets tougher and tougher to land the job. Your the #1 man on the list until you show up for the first face-to-face interview and you sure don't look like you did at 40.

So, now, into a job out of state, fly home every other weekend, working now himself for less than half of what he made 10 years ago. Who needs this? At 62, we're worn out with it, worked hard all our lives, and are tired of being shuffled down the ladder.

Where do we go? So many transfers, so many different homes, children all over the country. And, every forum from every state says that the retirees moving in are ruining their economy. We have money to spend -and do, don't take your jobs, pay our taxes on our homes, sales, and investment income. We are trying to give back to our communities and we can't all afford those McMansions that concern you. Who are those people?

For 20 years since our first visit to Asheville and Black Mt. it has been our dream to retire to that lovely area someday. But, retirees are made to feel like burdens not just to their adopted communities, but even within the community they may have grown up in. Sad. We raised all of you kids and gave you the best years of our lives. We would love to share with you now in the peace and beauty of your hometown (and where did you move from?), but feel we can't.

Don't retire, young people. Work until you are ready to drop and then...

Sorry, this became so long. I am sure that many will not take the time to read it. But, it is important for all of the thirty-somethings and forty-somethings to know that most of the folks over 65 in this country are not fat-cats trying to take advantage of your town. We volunteer at libraries, city garden clubs, meals-on-wheels, hospitals, etc. trying to give back to a welcoming new home. Most of us are too tired of the rat-race to get involved in your politics. We'll let that up to all you thinkers and doers - and talkers.

Be nice to your mom and dad tomorrow. Give them a hug and say "thank you".

[cooperwx]

Originally Posted by gemthornton

...it is important for all of the thirty-somethings and forty-somethings to know that most of the folks over 65 in this country are not fat-cats trying to take advantage of your town. We volunteer at libraries, city garden clubs, meals-on-wheels, hospitals, etc. trying to give back to a welcoming new home. Most of us are too tired of the rat-race to get involved in your politics. We'll let that up to all you thinkers and doers - and talkers.

Nice post, and good fresh perspective, gem. It just seems like a LOT of fat cat retirees are coming here looking for the most recently thrashed mountainside to waste away their golden years doing whatever they do behind the gates of their age-restricted communities.

There is no doubt that those who do not work have plenty to contribute to their chosen town. A huge "Thank you!" to all who come and give their time and energy to make their WNC communities better places to live.

[Fitz]

Originally Posted by gemthornton

Be nice to your mom and dad tomorrow. Give them a hug and say "thank you".

I don't think this has anything to do with age. My main concern is that WNC is being developed based on the South Florida model, and for me Florida exemplifies the worst attributes of America: greed, economic disparity and ugly consumerism.

I'm sure that you feel entitled to whatever you can afford to buy, but don't pretend that your purchasing a custom home in the mountains isn't adding to a real problem. While retirees don't destroy economies by competing for jobs, they often do destroy the affordability of housing by disconnecting housing prices from any relationship with local salaries and wages.

As for that hug, I think older generations will be deserving of hugs when we start to live with some concern for future generations. We aren't doing a very good job of that in America and certainly not in the mountains.

[gemkeeper]

What I was trying to express is that most retirees live on a very fixed income, cannot afford luxury custom homes, nor do most of us want one. We don't want our lives consumed in our senior yrs. with the upkeep of a huge home with ever increasing taxes.

I totally support your ire at bulldozing everything that is special and precious within any environment. It is morally unacceptable to destroy the very beauty that attracts folks to the area to begin with. It only adds to land erosion, debeautifying an area, and building blight. I understand money-thirsty developers and people who do not care.

Perhaps I read too much into your FL. northward migration. But, usually that means "seniors" ready to move on to another place that they can conquer. That is a small group contributing to the problem (although it may seem huge coming out of one general location, i.e. Florida).

We probably will not be relocating for our retirement this coming year to Asheville at this point. And I hope, as you do, that when my husband and I come to visit, as we often do, that it will be the Asheville that we have come to love and enjoy.

Land management is desparately needed in so many areas of the country and now, in particular, Asheville. Where is a new Teddy Roosevelt when you need him most?

And, please give your mom and dad a hug today anyhow! I'm sure they would be thrilled. I would.

[Dave O]

Just for the sake of argument let's pretend that you had a mortgage on that $350k house and that it would take ~$3,000/mo of pre-tax income to cover the payment.

If you add $36k ($3,000*12 mo) back to your $80k income then you would have an income of $116k.

In most desirable areas of North Carolina a family income of $116k would make you solidly middle class, maybe upper middle class. In other words you'd be doing okay but not living "high on the hog."

[VBmom]

I certianly didn't mean to start a retired vs working arguement. I am speaking strictly from my own experience and my own hometown.
Believe me, I hugged my retired parents yesterday. In fact, I see them and hug them almost every day.

[gemkeeper]

I understand completely, VBMom. In so many threads, and on all forums, not just this one, the economic, social and over-development problems tend to either be implied or out-right jabs at seniors. I know that this wasn't intent at all, but most discussions do tend to migrate toward that subject.

Unfortunately, the largest birth boom in our history occurred in the decade following WW2 and we are just now experiencing many of those born at the time retiring. It is going to be a problem for all areas of the country. Some are losing residents in record numbers, which will affect those economies tremendously. Other areas, such as Asheville, are experiencing just the opposite - an influx of people, many of whom are retirees. Sadly, this has a similar effect on economy as those losing their population base - with the additional problem of over-development by nearsighted developers.

But, many more of those contributing to this blight are not seniors but upperwardly mobile young people who want the good life at any cost. They do not see, and many times do not care, that they are robbing so many of a way of life, of a beloved hometown, a future dream of their own.

Call this the pursuit of happiness or overindulgent selfiness or what ever you like. I would just like to put in my two cents for the senior citizens who are mindful of this situation and are doing their best to provide solutions rather than to add to the problem.

I didn't mean any disrespect to any who have posted here on the subject of overdevelopment or rising costs or anything else. In fact, this should have been a separate thread altogether. It seems to have become a snowball rolling downhill and now has a life of its own. Excuse me, please.

But, I do thank those of you who have read through this thread and hope that perhaps it gives you another perspective of what is happening everywhere in our country.

[gemkeeper]

I want to add after reading through my post, that I am not myself implying that it is another generation of people who are creating the problem. I don't think this can be directed at any particular age group, but more at a mentality of many of all age, economic and social groups.