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I think The Punk has a good grasp on how to answer the question that started the thread: North or South? It is a cultural question. Whatever happened back in 1863 doesn't really define us as North or South in 2008. The people in Bluefield and Beckley CHOOSE to align themselves with the Southern Culture. The people in Wheeling (and maybe Morgantown or Parkersburg???) CHOOSE to align themselves with the North (Northeast or Midwest). One guy told me he was from Wheeling, Ohio. He had never been to the state fair on the other end of the state. But that's okay, because there are probably many people in Fairlea who have never been to the Festival of Lights at Oglebay Park. My friend in Moundsville has never eaten pinto beans and cornbread, and my friend from the coal camp of Marianna, WV has never eaten DiCarlo's pizza. Though they both root for WVU football, which is the one thing that unifies people from Wellsburg to Lewisburg.
Last edited by italianbluesboy; 04-08-2008 at 07:05 AM..
It's the northern most Southern state. Come on let's face it, WV fits in more with the South than it does with the Northeast, culturally and geographically. We are hundreds of miles from New England and New York.
.....
but West Virginia is clearly a Southern state overall. And who knows, maybe the Pittsburgh area has some Southern influences carried from WV. Anybody that claims that this state is a Yankee state, means that they don't have any knowledge what so ever of WV.
The original post is months old and I generally don't participate in old threads that people dredge up, but I will comment on this one as it passed me by the first time around...
While I live in Atlanta today, I grew up in West Virginia. I was one of the last graduating classes from Charleston High School before it was torn down.
I can definately say that in the early to mid 1980s at least, no one that I knew or who knew my family every considered West Virginia to be a Southern state. If they do now, that's a new one on me as I still have relatives there and when I read this post I called up a couple of them and read this list and they just laughed. Their general reply was, "Um, no, we're not Southern". For that matter I've never known anyone up there to use the word "Yankee" in any context.
As several people have said above, there was a common slogan used in the older days but actually I do believe it was used for the city of Charleston and not West Virginia as a state: "The most Southern Northern city and the most Northern Southern city". This made reference to the fact that you could find certain things about Charleston that were "Northern" and certain things that were "Southern". The accents were not Southern but were more monotone or generic "rural" until you get to the Beckley/Bluefield areas, and you could find Gyro and Philly sandwiches alongside sweet tea and slaw in restaurants - a mix of the two cultures.
Regarding history, the government typically does do things without 100% approval from the people, so perhaps the Wheeling vote for statehood was done without full approval of the people. Then again, the same could be said about the Iraq war, income taxes, immigration laws, etc etc etc. Nothing has ever been done with full 100% approval by all. In the late 1800s whoever did not agree with the decision no doubt hopped in the family wagon and rode over to the Virginia side to live. The rest, stayed.
I live in the "deep" South now. Atlanta in general is not really Southern as the 5 million people in the metro area come from every corner of the U.S. as well as the world. Get into the more rural areas of the state outside of the city metro however, and you are definately in the deep South, and I can tell you that there are very few similarities between that culture and the culture from back home in WV. Anyone from WV who has ever been subjected to a Southern Baptist church or had their child go to a public school down here will definately stand on the top of a mountain and yell, "Thank God West Virginia is a NORTHERN state!!!" Just trust me on that.
Stats, numbers, and history in books is one thing. How people "feel" about where they live is another. I've never honestly known any West Virginian who said, "I'm Southern". For that matter, I've never known anyone who said they were Northern, either. West Virginians are "Appalachians" and I think most consider that something entirely different than the former two labels - and they're proud of it, too.
The original post is months old and I generally don't participate in old threads that people dredge up, but I will comment on this one as it passed me by the first time around...
While I live in Atlanta today, I grew up in West Virginia. I was one of the last graduating classes from Charleston High School before it was torn down.
I can definately say that in the early to mid 1980s at least, no one that I knew or who knew my family every considered West Virginia to be a Southern state. If they do now, that's a new one on me as I still have relatives there and when I read this post I called up a couple of them and read this list and they just laughed. Their general reply was, "Um, no, we're not Southern". For that matter I've never known anyone up there to use the word "Yankee" in any context.
As several people have said above, there was a common slogan used in the older days but actually I do believe it was used for the city of Charleston and not West Virginia as a state: "The most Southern Northern city and the most Northern Southern city". This made reference to the fact that you could find certain things about Charleston that were "Northern" and certain things that were "Southern". The accents were not Southern but were more monotone or generic "rural" until you get to the Beckley/Bluefield areas, and you could find Gyro and Philly sandwiches alongside sweet tea and slaw in restaurants - a mix of the two cultures.
Regarding history, the government typically does do things without 100% approval from the people, so perhaps the Wheeling vote for statehood was done without full approval of the people. Then again, the same could be said about the Iraq war, income taxes, immigration laws, etc etc etc. Nothing has ever been done with full 100% approval by all. In the late 1800s whoever did not agree with the decision no doubt hopped in the family wagon and rode over to the Virginia side to live. The rest, stayed.
I live in the "deep" South now. Atlanta in general is not really Southern as the 5 million people in the metro area come from every corner of the U.S. as well as the world. Get into the more rural areas of the state outside of the city metro however, and you are definately in the deep South, and I can tell you that there are very few similarities between that culture and the culture from back home in WV. Anyone from WV who has ever been subjected to a Southern Baptist church or had their child go to a public school down here will definately stand on the top of a mountain and yell, "Thank God West Virginia is a NORTHERN state!!!" Just trust me on that.
Stats, numbers, and history in books is one thing. How people "feel" about where they live is another. I've never honestly known any West Virginian who said, "I'm Southern". For that matter, I've never known anyone who said they were Northern, either. West Virginians are "Appalachians" and I think most consider that something entirely different than the former two labels - and they're proud of it, too.
Please, do you even know what you are talking about Greg? Seriously, you didn't have to post here if you didn't want to, and I know everybody's entitled to their own opinion, but I'm sorry, I have to completely disagree with you on this one.
You didn't have to use Atlanta or the state of Georgia as a comparison, my friend, as I too have lived in North Georgia as well. I lived and hour north of Atlanta on the Pickens/Cherokee county line for 5 years, after mostly growing up in Valley Bend, WV (I moved when I was 15), and trust me, the people there are the same as the people here in WV. Nobody there has ever said that I have an accent, cause I sound just like them.
I went to high school in Jasper, GA and I have never went to a mountain top and chanted "Thank God West Virginia is a NORTHERN state!!!". I've also went to church there and never chanted it there either. And don't even think there isn't any Southern Baptist churches in WV, cause there are. WVCSB.org : West Virginia Convention of Southern Baptists.
I have met a lot of people here in WV, and 7 out of 10 people have told me that they consider themselves Southern, and yes, they are from WV.
As I have said before, the northern parts of the state (especially the panhandle, which I don't even consider WV anymore), does have some northern (Midwestern) influences to it due being close in proximity to Pittsburgh. But Southern traits can also be found there. Also, most West Virginians call a soft drink pop, but is this enough to make West Virginia a Northern or Midwestern state. I certainly don't think so.
Still don't believe me? Let's put it in this perspective Greg, Kentucky my neighboring state to the west, also has some Midwestern influences to it along the Ohio river, including Northern Kentucky which is just south of Cincinnati. Still, most people consider Kentucky a Southern state, overall, right? I'm sure you do as well. How about Virginia, my neighboring state to the east, which contains Northeastern influences in Northern Virginia, but overall, VA is still considered a Southern state. I'm sure you agree with me on that as well.
As is KY and VA, WV is still a Southern state, overall.
Here is the best map that I found on the internet that divides the Northern United States from the Southern United States.
Last edited by Colby "The Punk" Wells; 04-08-2008 at 05:43 PM..
I think The Punk has a good grasp on how to answer the question that started the thread: North or South? It is a cultural question. Whatever happened back in 1863 doesn't really define us as North or South in 2008. The people in Bluefield and Beckley CHOOSE to align themselves with the Southern Culture. The people in Wheeling (and maybe Morgantown or Parkersburg???) CHOOSE to align themselves with the North (Northeast or Midwest). One guy told me he was from Wheeling, Ohio. He had never been to the state fair on the other end of the state. But that's okay, because there are probably many people in Fairlea who have never been to the Festival of Lights at Oglebay Park. My friend in Moundsville has never eaten pinto beans and cornbread, and my friend from the coal camp of Marianna, WV has never eaten DiCarlo's pizza. Though they both root for WVU football, which is the one thing that unifies people from Wellsburg to Lewisburg.
I agree, WVU football is the only thing that unifies all West Virginians. I really wish WVU would leave the Big East and join the SEC, but that's another story.
Wheeling, Ohio, lol. In my opinion, I really think the northern panhandle should become part of Ohio.
I'm not sure there is really any completely correct answer. I personally am going to have to go with atlantagreg and say Appalachian, however that can be open to interpretation depending on who you ask.
I also grew up in Charleston, my friends and family never felt that they were truly "southern" however they would NEVER want to be considered a yankee. As atlantagreg also mentioned you find characteristics of both northern and southern in Charleston that make it somewhat of a blend of the two geographic regions.
I moved to the Washington DC area four years ago right after college and people up here consider WV to be a southern state. If I go home for the weekend or for a holiday my friends basically act as if im heading back to the plantation (or a trailer with a rebel flag plastered all over it). They equate southern with being redneck, however I characterize it as friendly people, warmer weather and SWEAT TEA.
I would caution the use of that map as an example really is just going to add fuel to the fire on this debate. There is no mention on there of a midwestern region, and the south realistically extends to the Mason-Dixon line, that would include Maryland and the District of Columbia.
Bottom line for the comparison is that different people think different things about what consitutes a geographic heritage. Examples include: West Virgina broke away from the South during the civil war so there is an argument that it could be northern. The people of suburban Washington say "Northern VA" all the time to not be considered southern, yet during the Civil War the northern virginia army was the most loyal in the confederacy. People in rural parts of WV proudly display the rebel flag (much to my dismay) yet the state didn't even fight for nor was it ever apart of the Confederate States of America.
Certain areas are also dramatically influenced by large influxes of people from different parts of the nation/world, such changes can dramatically alter the perceived geographic views. DC and Atlanta both used to be considered southern but with the massive influx of individuals from more northern locals, the two cities are now about as southern as a Jersey accent. West Virginia has very low immigration and therefore it holds onto it's Appalachian charm that makes it so unique from everywhere else... except Wheeling and their obnoxious Pittsburghese accent.
What ever happened to the term Mid-Atlantic? I think that is perhaps a descent description. Either that or Appalachian, that is my guess....
Last edited by NOVAmtneer82; 04-08-2008 at 06:12 PM..
Please, do you even know what you are talking about Greg? Seriously, you didn't have to post here if you didn't want to, and I know everybody's entitled to their own opinion, but I'm sorry, I have to completely disagree with you on this one.
You didn't have to use Atlanta or the state of Georgia as a comparison, my friend, as I too have lived in North Georgia as well. I lived and hour north of Atlanta on the Pickens/Cherokee county line for 5 years, after mostly growing up in Valley Bend, WV (I moved when I was 15), and trust me, the people there are the same as the people here in WV. Nobody there has ever said that I have an accent, cause I sound just like them.
I went to high school in Jasper, GA and I have never went to a mountain top and chanted "Thank God West Virginia is a NORTHERN state!!!". I've also went to church there and never chanted it there either. And don't even think there isn't any Southern Baptist churches in WV, cause there are. WVCSB.org : West Virginia Convention of Southern Baptists.
I have met a lot of people here in WV, and 7 out of 10 people have told me that they consider themselves Southern, and yes, they are from WV.
As I have said before, the northern parts of the state (especially the panhandle, which I don't even consider WV anymore), does have some northern (Midwestern) influences to it due being close in proximity to Pittsburgh. But Southern traits can also be found there. Also, most West Virginians call a soft drink pop, but is this enough to make West Virginia a Northern or Midwestern state. I certainly don't think so.
Still don't believe me? Let's put it in this perspective Greg, Kentucky my neighboring state to the west, also has some Midwestern influences to it along the Ohio river, including Northern Kentucky which is just south of Cincinnati. Still, most people consider Kentucky a Southern state, overall, right? I'm sure you do as well. How about Virginia, my neighboring state to the east, which contains Northeastern influences in Northern Virginia, but overall, VA is still considered a Southern state. I'm sure you agree with me on that as well.
As is KY and VA, WV is still a Southern state, overall.
Here is the best map that I found on the internet that divides the Northern United States from the Southern United States.
I'm not sure there is really any completely correct answer. I personally am going to have to go with atlantagreg and say Appalachian, however that can be open to interpretation depending on who you ask.
I also grew up in Charleston, my friends and family never felt that they were truly "southern" however they would NEVER want to be considered a yankee. As atlantagreg also mentioned you find characteristics of both northern and southern in Charleston that make it somewhat of a blend of the two geographic regions.
I moved to the Washington DC area four years ago right after college and people up here consider WV to be a southern state. If I go home for the weekend or for a holiday my friends basically act as if im heading back to the plantation (or a trailer with a rebel flag plastered all over it). They equate southern with being redneck, however I characterize it as friendly people, warmer weather and SWEAT TEA.
I would caution the use of that map as an example really is just going to add fuel to the fire on this debate. There is no mention on there of a midwestern region, and the south realistically extends to the Mason-Dixon line, that would include Maryland and the District of Columbia.
Bottom line for the comparison is that different people think different things about what consitutes a geographic heritage. Examples include: West Virgina broke away from the South during the civil war so there is an argument that it could be northern. The people of suburban Washington say "Northern VA" all the time to not be considered southern, yet during the Civil War the northern virginia army was the most loyal in the confederacy. People in rural parts of WV proudly display the rebel flag (much to my dismay) yet the state didn't even fight for nor was it ever apart of the Confederate States of America.
Certain areas are also dramatically influenced by large influxes of people from different parts of the nation/world, such changes can dramatically alter the perceived geographic views. DC and Atlanta both used to be considered southern but with the massive influx of individuals from more northern locals, the two cities are now about as southern as a Jersey accent. West Virginia has very low immigration and therefore it holds onto it's Appalachian charm that makes it so unique from everywhere else... except Wheeling and their obnoxious Pittsburghese accent.
What ever happened to the term Mid-Atlantic? I think that is perhaps a descent description. Either that or Appalachian, that is my guess....
If your going to consider all of WV a Mid-Atlantic state, be my guest. If you think all of WV is, Virginia would be in it as well.
Yes, WV is Appalachian, but I personally don't believe in a Mid-Atlantic region. #1 it's a man-made region and #2, the Mid-Atlantic is usually considered part of the Northeast. Do you actually think WV is in the Northeast? I personally don't think so and I never will.
WV was created, without the consent of it's people during the War Between the States. 2/3 of the territory of what would become WV, supported the Confederacy and 50% of WV's troops fought for the South. Only around 30% of the troops (each) from Maryland, Kentucky, and Missouri fought for the Confederacy. For crying out loud man, Charleston has a statue of Stonewall Jackson at the State Capital. No city in the Northeast or Midwest has that.
Here's a picture of the statue I found while Googleing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plains10
LOL, Kansas is NOT in the southeastern region
Ignore the part of the the map that says Southeastern region, Plains, I know you're not in the Southeast. But, look at this way, If the United States were to be cut in half (north & south), that is what it would look like.
Last edited by Colby "The Punk" Wells; 04-08-2008 at 07:19 PM..
Did I say anything about WV being in the Northeast? It is about as far from it as one can get but it certainly isn't entirely southern. Are you going to tell me that Morgantown is southern? the Eastern Panhandle? I certainly hope not.
You seem to have a problem accepting the opinions of others, if so I don't think you should be posting on an OPINION based forum. I didn't get on here and say NO WAY WV is not southern you are wrong, which is the tone you seem to take with not ony me but several others on this board.
I grew up in Charleston and I'm telling you people don't consider themselves truly southern, not then, not now. Charleston has a statue of Stonewall Jackson because it is the capital of West Virginia and Stonewall Jackson was from...WEST VIRGINIA. Well technically it was Clarksburg Virginia at the time but I guess he is still considered a native son.
The Mid-Atlantic states are one of nine geographic divisions identified by the US Census Bureau...the fact you personally don't believe in it is rather insignificant as far as data is concerned.
If you have some obsession with being southern that's fine, more power to you. I wont disagree with you that parts of WV are definitely very southern, Charleston isn't really one of them...
Did I say anything about WV being in the Northeast? It is about as far from it as one can get but it certainly isn't entirely southern. Are you going to tell me that Morgantown is southern, the Eastern Panhandle? Don't think so.
You seem to have a problem accepting the opinions of others, if so I don't think you should be posting on an OPINION based forum. I didn't get on here and say NO WAY WV is not southern you are wrong, which is the tone you seem to take with not ony me but several others on this board.
I grew up in Charleston and I'm telling you people don't consider themselves truly southern, not then, not now. Charleston has a statue of Stonewall Jackson because it is the capital of West Virginia and Stonewall Jackson wasfrom...WEST VIRGINIA. Well technically it was Clarksburg Virginia at the time but I guess he is still considered a native son.
The Mid-Atlantic states are one of nine geographic divisions identified by the US Census Bureau...the fact you personally don't believe in it is rather insignificant as far as data is concerned.
If you have some obsession with being southern that's fine, more power to you. I wont disagree with you that parts of WV are definitely very southern, Charleston isn't really one of them...
Dude, what are you talking about? Calm down, I never, EVER said Morgantown, or the eastern panhandle is completely Southern. Like I have said before, Northern WV (especially the panhandle) has some Northern and Midwestern influences due to Pittsburgh, but some Southern traits can still be found there.
No, I don't have a problem accepting everybody's opinions, because I know everyone's entitled to their own (to each their own they say). I'm just trying to defend my place on West Virginia. It just seems like nobody reads my posts from earlier on this subject, and I always have to repeat myself.
Yes, I am obsessed with being a Southerner, and yes I am a true West Virginian. I grew up in Randolph County, and I absolutely agree with you, some parts of WV are more Southern than others. However, In my opinion, I think the transition line is in the Clarksburg area. I have met a lot of West Virginians that have considered themselves as Southerners.
Anyway, on with the Mid-Atlantic issue. Most people usually do consider that particular region a part of the Northeast, and I'm not just making that up either. Mid-Atlantic States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
The Weather Channel usually considers it a part of the Northeast as well.
Jfronz, I apologize If I have offended you, or anyone else in any way what so ever. I'm sorry!
Please, do you even know what you are talking about Greg? Seriously, you didn't have to post here if you didn't want to, and I know everybody's entitled to their own opinion, but I'm sorry, I have to completely disagree with you on this one.
You didn't have to use Atlanta or the state of Georgia as a comparison, my friend, as I too have lived in North Georgia as well. I lived and hour north of Atlanta on the Pickens/Cherokee county line for 5 years, after mostly growing up in Valley Bend, WV (I moved when I was 15), and trust me, the people there are the same as the people here in WV. Nobody there has ever said that I have an accent, cause I sound just like them.
I went to high school in Jasper, GA and I have never went to a mountain top and chanted "Thank God West Virginia is a NORTHERN state!!!". I've also went to church there and never chanted it there either. And don't even think there isn't any Southern Baptist churches in WV, cause there are. WVCSB.org : West Virginia Convention of Southern Baptists.
I have met a lot of people here in WV, and 7 out of 10 people have told me that they consider themselves Southern, and yes, they are from WV.
As I have said before, the northern parts of the state (especially the panhandle, which I don't even consider WV anymore), does have some northern (Midwestern) influences to it due being close in proximity to Pittsburgh. But Southern traits can also be found there. Also, most West Virginians call a soft drink pop, but is this enough to make West Virginia a Northern or Midwestern state. I certainly don't think so.
Still don't believe me? Let's put it in this perspective Greg, Kentucky my neighboring state to the west, also has some Midwestern influences to it along the Ohio river, including Northern Kentucky which is just south of Cincinnati. Still, most people consider Kentucky a Southern state, overall, right? I'm sure you do as well. How about Virginia, my neighboring state to the east, which contains Northeastern influences in Northern Virginia, but overall, VA is still considered a Southern state. I'm sure you agree with me on that as well.
As is KY and VA, WV is still a Southern state, overall.
Here is the best map that I found on the internet that divides the Northern United States from the Southern United States.
See Punk, I'm from Elkins, which is like what? 15-20 minutes from where you grew up in Valley Head. But I've never felt a connection with the South either. Nor have my friends or family. I just can't see it at all. My friends from Alabama and other southern states laugh when I ask them if they considered WV a southern state. While I don't feel particularly attached to the midwest or northeast either. I see more of Mid-Atlantic zone. Which I think has some of both. I feel like WV may be 65/35 Northern-Southern. Ehh, just my opinion
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