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How many freight trains run per day? How many between 8:00 AM-6:00 PM?
32 add'l trains per day.
Do the math. It's a valid concern. And, arguably, will "snarl and delay traffic in far, far worse ways than any" bridge.
Sorry, but the Brightline has been running for months now in points south of Jupiter, and there has been no "snarling" of traffic due to the 60-90 seconds the gates are down for the train.
In downtown West Palm Beach during rush hour, however, the drawbridge can add 10-15 minutes to a commute. The Brightline is also far less frequent than, say, tri-Rail.
I live in a neighborhood in West Palm Beach that is right between the FEC tracks and the CSK tracks. Barely notice the trains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmsd1
Jupiter is being smart and listening to all sides.
Having lived in New Haven previously, we know quite a few folks who live DIRECTLY adjacent to the tracks. They don't mind the current horns. Horns are an element of elevated safety protocol. Hasty elimination of horns is actually a valid concern.
What they do mind is <32 add'l horns attached to mostly-empty trains rolling through the heart of town each day, disrputing land (& water) traffic on FEC tracks that long ago became a far less ideal platform for long-haul transit in this section of SE FL.
Horns are not necessary. I have never in my life stopped walking across or driving across the trains because I heard a train horn. Instead, the flashing lights, bells and gates are more than adequate.
Jupiter objects because of a minority contingent of boat owners who are upset the tracks bridge over the inlet will go down more frequently. Forget the fact that the bridges in Jupiter are always managing to SNARL traffic in the most annoying ways.
Jupiter objects because of a minority contingent of boat owners who are upset the tracks bridge over the inlet will go down more frequently. Forget the fact that the bridges in Jupiter are always managing to SNARL traffic in the most annoying ways.
That's basically it.
1. that bridge doesn't go over the inlet
2. that bridge is not really in the best shape so "extra" crossings surely will affect it
3. those boat owners all live on the water west of the bridge so figure out what they pay in property taxes and then wonder how many times they will use the brightline train? What will the noise/snarl do to the property values west of the bridge?
1. that bridge doesn't go over the inlet
2. that bridge is not really in the best shape so "extra" crossings surely will affect it
3. those boat owners all live on the water west of the bridge so figure out what they pay in property taxes and then wonder how many times they will use the brightline train? What will the noise/snarl do to the property values west of the bridge?
1. You're being hyper-technical for the sake of being contrarian. It is right at the entrance to the inlet, before the Jupiter Lighthouse. It's a main thoroughfare for pleasure boaters who think they're leisure activity is more important than freight and passenger activity.
2. The bridge can be upgraded. Rest assured Brightline isn't going to expose itself to unnecessary liability from passengers injured on a faulty bridge.
3. I don't care what they pay in property taxes. That railway bridge existed before they ever purchased their homes. In fact, passenger service existed on that rail along time ago. It was and is the height of naivete to live next to a railroad, or a highway, or an airport, and expect that said infrastructure will not be used for its intended purpose, or be static in time.
I'm sorry, but the residents of Jupiter are being spoiled and entitled brats about this whole thing, and it's largely generated by the boating contingent.
As I've said, I live in between both the tri-rail AND the FEC. The tri-rail affects my daily life far more because of the frequency. It is rare that I am stopped by a Brightline (which passes in like, 1 minute total... most of that being the gates going down and up. It actually passes by an intersection in like, 2 seconds). Jupiter and treasure coast residents don't get to fearmonger through speculation and disaster scenarios about this anymore. The train is running through far denser areas in Palm Beach and Broward. Except the "suicide by train" incidents, there has been no major effects.
Traffic lights are longer than the train passing. AND we will have the benefits in West Palm of QUIET ZONES, which actually INCREASES property values.
1. You're being hyper-technical for the sake of being contrarian. It is right at the entrance to the inlet, before the Jupiter Lighthouse. It's a main thoroughfare for pleasure boaters who think they're leisure activity is more important than freight and passenger activity.
Your statement is a little odd. Why should freight and long-haul passenger service be more important to local residents than quality-of-life, recreation, noise, safety concerns, and broad economic impacts
(Boating, fishing, and other "leisure activity" actually have strong economic impacts in coatal communities. Perhaps moreso than...freight??)
So who exactly is being selfish and myopic? It goes both ways...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7
2. The bridge can be upgraded. Rest assured Brightline isn't going to expose itself to unnecessary liability from passengers injured on a faulty bridge.
There is already plans to raise the bridge. The upgrade will also decrease the total time to raise/lower. That's a great thing. But that will take time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7
3. I don't care what they pay in property taxes. That railway bridge existed before they ever purchased their homes. In fact, passenger service existed on that rail along time ago. It was and is the height of naivete to live next to a railroad, or a highway, or an airport, and expect that said infrastructure will not be used for its intended purpose, or be static in time.
No clue what your point might be here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7
I'm sorry, but the residents of Jupiter are being spoiled and entitled brats about this whole thing, and it's largely generated by the boating contingent.
You're not sorry, and that's ok. It's possible for others to disagree with you and you not throw a tantrum.
Jupiter residents are being spoiled brats - that's a silly accusation.
If navigable waterways aren't your thing, ok then. For some, it's very important.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7
As I've said, I live in between both the tri-rail AND the FEC. The tri-rail affects my daily life far more because of the frequency. It is rare that I am stopped by a Brightline (which passes in like, 1 minute total... most of that being the gates going down and up. It actually passes by an intersection in like, 2 seconds). Jupiter and treasure coast residents don't get to fearmonger through speculation and disaster scenarios about this anymore. The train is running through far denser areas in Palm Beach and Broward. Except the "suicide by train" incidents, there has been no major effects.
Traffic lights are longer than the train passing. AND we will have the benefits in West Palm of QUIET ZONES, which actually INCREASES property values.
There are only 8 trains running now, I believe.
Opponents have valid concerns with the planned 32x schedule. I'm afraid any present-day observations of Brightline service are hardly valid...
As far as anecdotal experiences at any single crossing as of late, best we just agree that the nature of the FEC corridor varies widely along its expanse.
It is what it is...
It's FEC's tracks. (And they own the crossings!) They can do with them what they want. Period. The negotiated an amazing deal way, way, way back before any of us were even a thought and we all need to just live with it.
Brightline will eventually happen whether we like it or not. Whether it survives long-term in it's planned form - highly debatable.
Just because Brightline is inevitable, and the company is doing many things to be as amiable as possible, doesn't mean the identified criticisms aren't valid.
Brightline needs to stop the charade on public funding. Tax-exempt bonds? Applying for subsidized federal loans? Getting the state taxpayers to build your station for you?
It is what it is.
1. You're being hyper-technical for the sake of being contrarian. It is right at the entrance to the inlet, before the Jupiter Lighthouse. It's a main thoroughfare for pleasure boaters who think they're leisure activity is more important than freight and passenger activity.
2. The bridge can be upgraded. Rest assured Brightline isn't going to expose itself to unnecessary liability from passengers injured on a faulty bridge.
3. I don't care what they pay in property taxes. That railway bridge existed before they ever purchased their homes. In fact, passenger service existed on that rail along time ago. It was and is the height of naivete to live next to a railroad, or a highway, or an airport, and expect that said infrastructure will not be used for its intended purpose, or be static in time.
I'm sorry, but the residents of Jupiter are being spoiled and entitled brats about this whole thing, and it's largely generated by the boating contingent.
.
the bridge is over a mile from the inlet! The train bridge is west of the inlet, west of the lighthouse and west of Alt A1A.
use of the bridge isn't the concern, the use of the waterway they paid to live on is the concern! Also note Stuart has the same issue with even a lower bridge.
Brightline has no riders, another epic fail, not that Tri-Rail ever was convient or worth the hassle and much like Scripps and Biotech in SoFla, here it is 14 years later and nothing that was forecasted ever came true there.
Your statement is a little odd. Why should freight and long-haul passenger service be more important to local residents than quality-of-life, recreation, noise, safety concerns, and broad economic impacts
(Boating, fishing, and other "leisure activity" actually have strong economic impacts in coatal communities. Perhaps moreso than...freight??)
So who exactly is being selfish and myopic? It goes both ways...
We are an interconnected region. If Jupiter residents want to know what life is like being a bucolic small town focused on recreation they can look at life in Winter Haven or Buford Florida.
The prosperity of Jupiter is directly related to its proximity to the Palm Beach and South Florida metros, and it behooves Jupiter to have healthy economies and infrastructure to the south.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmsd1
You're not sorry, and that's ok. It's possible for others to disagree with you and you not throw a tantrum.
Jupiter residents are being spoiled brats - that's a silly accusation.
If navigable waterways aren't your thing, ok then. For some, it's very important.
The opponents don't just want "faster drawbridges"... they want to END the project. Because they might have to wait a couple more minutes to pass
We're talking about a fraction of a fraction of the population that has a boat in Jupiter. Disproportionate resources, however, means they can unfortunately bend the ears of politicians, who in turn waste municipal money fighting and delaying the train.
Luckily it seems Brightline has even more resources so the project will go forward and the poor, put-upon boaters in their too-large-to-pass-beneath-the-bridge boats can wave hi to the tourists (or give them the finger, whatever their choice) as it goes by.
I'll pay for a small violinist to play near the channel to entertain the boaters.
Quote:
There are only 8 trains running now, I believe.
Opponents have valid concerns with the planned 32x schedule. I'm afraid any present-day observations of Brightline service are hardly valid...
As far as anecdotal experiences at any single crossing as of late, best we just agree that the nature of the FEC corridor varies widely along its expanse.
Eight trains, going in each direction. Take it from someone who lives and works in the densest part of the county: Brightline is not the issue. Tri-Rail CAN snarl traffic, because there's no apparent rhyme or reason to the tri-rail schedule. The DRAWBRIDGES - especially during Rush hour - can also snarl traffic. Brightline is so quick it can be coordinated with an existing red-light traffic signal, and come and go before the light would have already turned green.
Jupiter and the Treasure Coast can realize net benefits of REDUCED train associated noise by working like West Palm did to implement quiet zones. We got upgraded safety crossings AND the horns are going away. Win-win.
the bridge is over a mile from the inlet! The train bridge is west of the inlet, west of the lighthouse and west of Alt A1A.
Are you REALLY taking issue with this? It's a non-point. There are vanishingly few people between the railway bridge and A1A who would have a boat. All of the traffic to the West are the same damned people either trying to access the inlet, or the intracoastal.
use of the bridge isn't the concern, the use of the waterway they paid to live on is the concern! Also note Stuart has the same issue with even a lower bridge.
Are you saying they will NOT have access to the waterway? Because that's some drama right there.
"Waaah, let's use city tax dollars to fight a losing battle because my boat is so big I have to wait a few extra minutes while boating for the railway to go down"
We are an interconnected region. If Jupiter residents want to know what life is like being a bucolic small town focused on recreation they can look at life in Winter Haven or Buford Florida.
The prosperity of Jupiter is directly related to its proximity to the Palm Beach and South Florida metros, and it behooves Jupiter to have healthy economies and infrastructure to the south.
That's just silly bordering on incoherent. The residents of Jupiter don't need to be dictated to on matters of PRIVATE for-profit infrastructure development within it's confines that lies outside the scope of CRA and/or legally-binding agreements.
Jupiter's present and future economic health (prosperity) is just fine without this new through service of rail. I promise you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7
The opponents don't just want "faster drawbridges"... they want to END the project. Because they might have to wait a couple more minutes to pass
We're talking about a fraction of a fraction of the population that has a boat in Jupiter. Disproportionate resources, however, means they can unfortunately bend the ears of politicians, who in turn waste municipal money fighting and delaying the train.
Luckily it seems Brightline has even more resources so the project will go forward and the poor, put-upon boaters in their too-large-to-pass-beneath-the-bridge boats can wave hi to the tourists (or give them the finger, whatever their choice) as it goes by.
I'll pay for a small violinist to play near the channel to entertain the boaters.
Yes, they do. On account of many factors (none of which are absent from this dialog).
I live in Jupiter. I'm quite ambivilent about Brightline, to be honest. But I've yet to come across a single town resident who wholly supports Brightline. Not a one. At a recent council meeting...I met 5 strong supporters. Had very insightful exchanges, actually. None live in Jupiter, though.
I'd be especially proud to see Brightline go forward using only their own resources. End their dubious pursuit of taxpayer-supported funding. It would be applauded as the current efforts to fund development are quite problematic to most folks.
And as far as the boating audience waving hi...the bridge clearance is currently 4 feet. Much of anything that floats fits your "too-large-to-pass-beneath" definition. Cute...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7
Eight trains, going in each direction. Take it from someone who lives and works in the densest part of the county: Brightline is not the issue. Tri-Rail CAN snarl traffic, because there's no apparent rhyme or reason to the tri-rail schedule. The DRAWBRIDGES - especially during Rush hour - can also snarl traffic. Brightline is so quick it can be coordinated with an existing red-light traffic signal, and come and go before the light would have already turned green.
Jupiter and the Treasure Coast can realize net benefits of REDUCED train associated noise by working like West Palm did to implement quiet zones. We got upgraded safety crossings AND the horns are going away. Win-win.
Again, are you talking about today...or the proposed schedule when Brightline operates at intended full schedule? Anyone/everyone engaged in COHERENT and reasoned support/opposition of Brightline speaks to the impacts of the future full schedule. Anecdotal observations from the present day service are pointless diversion.
You seem tremendously frustrated by scheduled openings on drawbridges. Sorry for that. Perhaps you can ask your viloinist to play overtime for you there.
You constantly miss the point or refuse to engage on it. This stupid horn issue one that Brightline seemingly amplified in an effort to market "big wins for the community." I don't know anyone who is happy with the more-trains-but-no-horns option. THey strongly prefer a less-trains-with-horns option. And, yes, ultimately...the less-trains-no-horn 3rd option is the creme-de-le-creme that would just be delightful.
But don't you worry...I'll be sure to help tell these small-townish, small-minded simpletons a thing or two about what's good for 'em: Empty trains blowing through.
Oh yea...just what this crappy, "under-developed", not-yet-dense-enough, too-little-traffic area needs to really take a step forward. Absolutely...
Jupiter’s not a place to live on an income of $250k.
The median household income here is $70K. You can live almost anywhere in the country on $250K and be comfortable. Jupiter is not a super expensive place to live unless you're comparing it to rural areas of the country.
Last edited by Sunscape; 06-03-2018 at 07:24 PM..
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