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I wouldn't consider Ottawa or Harbin has cool temperate maybe cool continental or Hemiboreal.
Here you got me confused. Isn't continental and temperate practically the same thing?
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Originally Posted by flamingGalah!
I would call them cold temperate
Yes, in the winter. In summer Ottawa is warmer than any place in the UK. Ottawa's July mean temp is 21C.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamihurricane555
Qttawa and moscow are boreal climate not at all temperate.
No, they aren't. Boreal is a synonym for subarctic, and both cities are way too warm to be called subarctic. A subarctic climate can have a mean temp of 10C/50F for a maximum of 3 months, typically has 6-7 months with a mean below freezing, and a very short frost-free growing season. Like 100 days.
Moscow and Ottawa have 5 months with a mean above 10C, O. has 8 months above freezing, M. 7 months. Moscow isn't even cold in winter compared to a great deal of US and Canada.
To say 'temperate', the location has to have 4-7 months with a mean above 10C. 5 month is the typical length (May-Sept). Like in Kiev, Warsaw, Helsinki and Stockholm.
I would focus most on the 7-8 warmest months. Cool temperate are locations like Turku, 5 months above 10C and 4 months below freezing. Amsterdam is mild temperate, with 6 months above 10C, and not a single month below freezing, but still with cool summers.
Lyon and Budapest are warm temperate, with warm summers and mild winters. Ottawa is warm summer temperate, but not warm temperate due to the cold winters.
Bordeaux is borderline subtropical, as it has 7 months above 10C, and 2 additional months with a mean above 9C.
But the problem is how to classify continental climates on a temperate scale? Like Fargo, ND. An average high of -7.7C in January, 28C in July. Is the cold winter more important than summer? Fargo's winters make Helsinki feel subtropical, though Fargo's 7 warmest months are all warmer than Helsinki's. That's the dilemma.
Exactly. Not all places will neatly fit in the 'box' of classification of such systems as Koppen's...
Some places will be cool year round, but not have extreme cold or heat...
Some places will be cool year round & have extreme cold & heat...
This is why some places need their own classification, as they don't fit all the criteria of Koppen/Trewartha, then again I'm not sure why we are so obsessed to give every place a climate 'label'...
Perhaps places like Ottawa could be described as cold temperate-continental? As they have cold winters, but hot summers?
One of the best descriptions I read for the UK climate was that it is cool temperate-maritime...
Some places need an extra descriptor to show more clearly what their climate is really like.
I'm not sure how Fargo is in the same climate zone as Minsk, Stockholm or Kiev? Fargo has much warmer summers (5-7C warmer) AND colder winters even though Fargo is at a lower latitude.
Perhaps places like Ottawa could be described as cold temperate-continental? As they have cold winters, but hot summers?
One of the best descriptions I read for the UK climate was that it is cool temperate-maritime...
But it doesn't work. Ottawa has warmer summers than Central Europe, so it can't be labeled cold. Therefore, we have to split the year into 2 parts, 6 hottest and 6 coolest months. So, Ottawa has a cold-winter warm-summer temperate climate. In other words supercontinental. Super prefix only because even I think the Ottawa winters are just brutal.
The UK is cool temperate maritime. I like that. Explains the climate really well.
Moscow and Ottawa have 5 months with a mean above 10C, O. has 8 months above freezing, M. 7 months. Moscow isn't even cold in winter compared to a great deal of US and Canada.
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I would check that...I think Moscow is quite cold in winter. Their mean temp is 20 F in January...that's colder than about 80% of the USA in January and I think stations even in southern Canada like Montreal might have the same temps?
But it doesn't work. Ottawa has warmer summers than Central Europe, so it can't be labeled cold. Therefore, we have to split the year into 2 parts, 6 hottest and 6 coolest months. So, Ottawa has a cold-winter warm-summer temperate climate. In other words supercontinental. Super prefix only because even I think the Ottawa winters are just brutal.
The UK is cool temperate maritime. I like that. Explains the climate really well.
Well continental climates have cold winters & hot summers, which is what Ottawa has. A continental climate is a variation of a temperate climate anyway...
So cold temperate (for the cold winters) continental (for hot summers) works well for Ottawa I think...
I would check that...I think Moscow is quite cold in winter. Their mean temp is 20 F in January...that's colder than about 80% of the USA in January and I think stations even in southern Canada like Montreal might have the same temps?
Yeah, it was an exaggeration, but in fact Moscow's winters aren't that brutal if you compare to Winnipeg or the Twin Cities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingGalah!
Well continental climates have cold winters & hot summers, which is what Ottawa has. A continental climate is a variation of a temperate climate anyway...
So cold temperate (for the cold winters) continental (for hot summers) works well for Ottawa I think...
The definition being? Should we make one?
Here's my suggestions for the classification:
1) Months with a mean temp above 10C (the requirement to trees to grow.)
2) Months with a mean temp above 5C (the requirement to grass to grow.)
3) Months with a mean temp below 0C (the requirement for frost heaving.)
4) growth period (mean temp constantly above 5C.)
5) precipitation.
6) hottest month with a mean of at least 20C (22C?)
7) coldest month with a mean of at least -5C?
Apply them for any location, and we'll see what we can agree upon.
If you start adding temperature boundaries etc.. (a la Koppen/Trewartha) then it complicates things...
I use climate types in a general sense, I think this is why there is so much confusion as to what climate 'X', 'Y'' & 'Z' has on here
Your or my common sense? You think -1C is frigid, I think it's a normal winter temperature. I'm not trying to be annoying here, but as there's so much weather knowledge and access to data on the weather forums, why couldn't we agree upon some common definitions without prejustice? That's my challenge.
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