Wolves and Cougars (living, land, health)

[PrincessoftheCape]

Originally Posted by PS90

I was going to post something like this yesterday, but thought better of it. The wolf "debate" is certainly in the top 3 most-common conversation topics here. Personally, I can see both sides of the argument.

They're huge dollar generators. In Alaska, one of the chief sources of visitors to Denali are the so-called 'predator tourists' who want to see grizzlies and wolves above anything else within the park. In fact, as Denali's wolf population has declined in recent years, local businesses have reported seeing a direct decrease in income as the associated crowds drop off.

I'm not saying that I would want Olympic National Park to become another Yellowstone or Yosemite -- I don't think anyone really would want that kind of thing to develop out there. But wolves generate buzz, and for some rather depressed places like Forks, buzz would likely be a good thing (especially since Twilight is likely to have no enduring impact beyond the next couple of years).

[magoomafoo]

Try living in Montana at the top of the Rockies (I do). Try living in Paradise Valley outside Yellowstone. My family, all ranchers, outfitters and guides do. Montana made a huge mistake introducing the wolves. I know for a FACT that there were already confirmed wolf packs in Montana before the introduction. How do I know this? For one, we had a game warden who did not agree with the introduction and refused to follow the rest of the "sheep" and let us residents know the truth backed up by documentation. Secondly, do you think the wolves in Canada stopped at the border before crossing the US/Canada line? They simply just stepped into the US from Canada into Montana, Idaho, Washington, Minnesota and Michigan. I know wolves are a threat, not only to elk, deer and moose populations but to livestock, pets and humans. We have had so many predation kills around us. I have had two dogs and a horse killed by predation. Our neighbors had a dog killed less than five feet from their front door on their ranch. This was a confirmed wolf predation kill by the Montana Fish and Game. We have to hunt wolves, mountain lions, coyotes and bear simply to reduce the exploding population.

[509]

Shooting large predators through hunting seasons gives them a healthy respect for humans. Which is a good thing. It is the only thing that will allow those species to survive in the long term.

Wolves will be interesting. We have a couple within three miles of downtown Wenatchee. The population of Wenatchee urban area is 112,000.

The wolf had attacked a deer and it was in pretty bad shape....its squalling got a resident to call a deputy sheriff. He shot in the direction of the wolf to scare it away from the homes. The wolf just stared at him. Like I said it will be interesting.

[509]

In TODAY's Spokesman-Review......Looks like quite a few wolves that could be relocated to Olympic National Park

There is very little ranching out on in the Olympics. The state would save a LOT of money by moving the wolves to western Washington. Everybody would be happy

A northeastern Washington wolf pack so new it hasn’t been formally recognized has been blamed for attacking cattle in Ferry County.

The Profanity Pack has been linked to cattle kills reported Sept. 12 on a Colville National Forest grazing allotment.

The pack, which has at least three adults and three pups, has been documented in the Kettle River Range east of Curlew and ranging near Profanity Peak, said Nate Pamplin, Washington Fish and Wildlife Department wildlife program director.

The Diamond M Ranch reported a cow and calf killed from a herd of 210 cow-calf pairs. State wildlife officials confirmed the cattle were killed by wolves.

Diamond M Ranch also had problems with wolf attacks mostly on private land in northern Stevens County in 2012. Those attacks on more than 15 cattle led the state to put helicopter gunners in the air and kill eight members of the Wedge Pack.

The Profanity Pack attacks were in a remote area about 4 miles by trail from the nearest road, Pamplin said.

The operators say more cattle likely were killed. They are moving the cattle to lower elevations, he said.

The cattle attacks were reported a month after another pack, the Huckleberry Pack, was confirmed in attacks on sheep a rancher was running on a private timber company grazing lease in Stevens County. At least 24 sheep were killed as state officers went in with a helicopter and killed the alpha female.

The flock of nearly 1,800 sheep has been moved to another grazing area.

[TrueTimbers]

Well I come from the big woods of northern Wisconsin. Seen wolves all the time. I see you them as good, protect them until established then have a managed hunting season. They keep nature in balance. Ranchers, well if you got nuisance animals remove them. It is all about balance.. No need to fear the big bad wolf...

Coyotes.... Great for keeping rodents in check.

Biggest problem is too many deer... I am all for anything that eats those beasts!?

[509]

[quote=TrueTimbers;36527917

Coyotes.... Great for keeping rodents in check. [/QUOTE]

More important than rodents is CATS. Coyotes do a great job keeping the cat population at sustainable levels in our neighborhood.

I just wish coyotes would observe quiet hours after 10:00pm.

[Sabinerose]

Originally Posted by PrincessoftheCape

States like Idaho and Montana are making an absolutely wretched mistake slaughtering their just-now-recovering wolf populations, all to spare a few backwards ranchers the 'terrible' burden of having to use automatic government compensation payouts to replace the occasional wolf kill.

As a very recent transplant from SW Montana to Western Washington...you need to educate yourself before making statements like this. Imagine being woke from a sound sleep to the screaming of cattle (yes, they scream when they are being eaten alive). Jump out of bed, throw on your boots and run to the barnyard...and see almost all your newborn calves bleeding and thrashing on the ground. In the pitch dark, you see dark shapes running after the mama cows and dragging them down while they scream and bawl. Yes, the cost and loss of the revenue runs through you mind, but mostly what you feel is sick helplessness. The calves you helped birth just hours before are lying wide eyed and dying before your eyes and no amount of shells will stop the wholesale slaughter going on. This particular pack of wolves are raising their pups to prey on penned up livestock. Two of your neighbors have already put their land on the market and left because those "automatic government compensation payouts" don't begin to cover the losses.

Come live here. Experience what the "just-now-recovering wolf populations" can really do to your livestock herds and family pets. Come be a "backwards rancher"...this is NOT a hobby farm, it's their LIVELYHOOD. These people depend on being able to raise, breed and sell cattle...hard to do when they are dead.

Look at some of the hard hit areas of Montana, find out the names of some of the small towns there, contact the ranchers, read the local papers, get the real story from the real people. Don't blankly believe whatever the government wants you to hear about the wolf issue.

Rant over...seriously off topic...sorry

[PrincessoftheCape]

Originally Posted by Sabinerose

As a very recent transplant from SW Montana to Western Washington...you need to educate yourself before making statements like this. Imagine being woke from a sound sleep to the screaming of cattle (yes, they scream when they are being eaten alive). Jump out of bed, throw on your boots and run to the barnyard...and see almost all your newborn calves bleeding and thrashing on the ground. In the pitch dark, you see dark shapes running after the mama cows and dragging them down while they scream and bawl. Yes, the cost and loss of the revenue runs through you mind, but mostly what you feel is sick helplessness. The calves you helped birth just hours before are lying wide eyed and dying before your eyes and no amount of shells will stop the wholesale slaughter going on. This particular pack of wolves are raising their pups to prey on penned up livestock. Two of your neighbors have already put their land on the market and left because those "automatic government compensation payouts" don't begin to cover the losses.

Come live here. Experience what the "just-now-recovering wolf populations" can really do to your livestock herds and family pets. Come be a "backwards rancher"...this is NOT a hobby farm, it's their LIVELYHOOD. These people depend on being able to raise, breed and sell cattle...hard to do when they are dead.

Look at some of the hard hit areas of Montana, find out the names of some of the small towns there, contact the ranchers, read the local papers, get the real story from the real people. Don't blankly believe whatever the government wants you to hear about the wolf issue.

Rant over...seriously off topic...sorry

Sorry, but I'm not prepared to annihilate an entire species to spare you the 'horror' of losing a cow or two. I don't need to go to Montana because there is no convincing me on this point -- the loss of a few head simply doesn't justify eradicating a largely peaceful and hugely iconic animal. And, mercifully, as states like Washington bravely refuse to institute such widespread culling, I rest easy in the knowledge that 'our' wolves will continue to replenish the populations that you so willfully slaughter.

Wolves should be welcomed with open arms to Olympic National Park. Farming is negligible in that part of the state, and a few packs would generate tourist dollars. I simply cannot see a downside.

[TrueTimbers]

Ranchers in Spain know have wolves again. The old breeds of dogs are coming back.

We can coexist, it just takes some effort and to not tie ranchers hands with killing problem individuals on PRIVATE land. Also to have aggressive hunting seasons based on the cyclical nature of the wolfs natural prey.

Yes a tall order to ask from gubbermint...

Sabinerose... What did you do to protect your livestock? Dogs.fences???

No more big bad wolf kill em all... Think it through.

[TrueTimbers]

Originally Posted by PrincessoftheCape

Sorry, but I'm not prepared to annihilate an entire species to spare you the 'horror' of losing a cow or two. I don't need to go to Montana because there is no convincing me on this point -- the loss of a few head simply doesn't justify eradicating a largely peaceful and hugely iconic animal. And, mercifully, as states like Washington bravely refuse to institute such widespread culling, I rest easy in the knowledge that 'our' wolves will continue to replenish the populations that you so willfully slaughter.

Wolves should be welcomed with open arms to Olympic National Park. Farming is negligible in that part of the state, and a few packs would generate tourist dollars. I simply cannot see a downside.

We need wolves in Port Townsend we have insane deer infestation... Too many coyote too! (Coyote run for the hills when wolfs are around.)