How is possible that the traffic is that bad??? (Baltimore: buying, construction)
Washington, DC suburbs in MarylandCalvert County, Charles County, Montgomery County, and Prince George's County
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I am moving to MD soon and I asked for a place to live. Everyone strongly recommended me to be as close as work as possible. I will definitely follow that advice. However, I am wondering how is possible that the traffic is so bad. I have checked on youtube some videos and it looks like for example the 495 has 4 lines each direction... that is a lot!!
What are the reason for the traffic congestion? Maybe, the low speed limit? Maybe the that people do not use to drive on the right line? Maybe a lot of control of police with a big risk of fine?
What are your thoughts?
Thanks!
Sprawl. You just have way too many people living in the middle of nowhere who then have to drive 15+ miles to reach a job core, which in turn clogs roads to, through, and within said job cores.
I have some additional perspective, while traffic due to high population density is one thing, the traffic planning, engineering is **** poor.
For example, there are highways (395 & 295) without a shoulder for distressed vehicles, leaving them stuck in traffic lanes and narrowing what was a 3 lane highway to a 2 lane highway or a 2 lane highway to a 1 lane highway.
Another example is on/off ramps, you've got people getting on the ramp and off the ramp in the same space. In Alexandria, the on ramp for 395 south and off ramp to Duke Street East is a perfect example, causes congestion simply because of poor planning.
Then there is the lack of coordination of street lights in many places, if I'm New York Avenue, Wisconsin Avenue or others that flow people into and out of the city, coordinate the timing of the street lights so that traffic can flow smoothly.
Everything you've noted is directly related to the age of our infrastructure, if that tell you anything. Highways standards have changed over time, and our roads have become safer as a result. The challenge involves retrofitting existing roads. When you have cost, traffic, property rights among other things to deal with, it's not very cost effective for governments to fix old roads. Plain and simple.
I guess you've never been to NYC, Los Angeles, or Atlanta.
High density population (sprawl) + job center (DC Metro) + lack of a hub-spoke-wheel transportation system that is reliable + major interstate
(I95) = traffic.
First off high density population is not sprawl, sprawl is the opposite. When there is lower density so more people drive instead of walk or take public transit for not just commuting, but every day task.
This is the problem outside the beltway, there is a great deal of sprawl, fewer walkable areas, and thus traffic tends to be far worse. Inside the beltway, and especially inside DC itself, this is less of an issue. In fact many of us do not have cars inside DC because of the higher density.
The point is, if you don't want traffic, move into an area you do not need to drive. An area which is higher density and walkable, basically the exact opposite of sprawl.
First off high density population is not sprawl, sprawl is the opposite. When there is lower density so more people drive instead of walk or take public transit for not just commuting, but every day task.
This is the problem outside the beltway, there is a great deal of sprawl, fewer walkable areas, and thus traffic tends to be far worse. Inside the beltway, and especially inside DC itself, this is less of an issue. In fact many of us do not have cars inside DC because of the higher density.
The point is, if you don't want traffic, move into an area you do not need to drive. An area which is higher density and walkable, basically the exact opposite of sprawl.
I largely agree, though "vertical sprawl" certainly exists within the region, as well, where you have high-density clusters of apartment towers and office complexes, but they're surrounded by surface lots and bisected by highways so public transit, walking and biking aren't viable options. E.g. the "old" Tyson's Corner which I'd consider sprawl - even though it's high density - versus the "new" mixed use, walkable, transit-oriented Tyson's they're working to develop now.
Part of the problem in the DC area, apart from movement outside the city core, is that when the transportation system was designed (both road and mass transit) no one predicted the move of jobs to outside areas.
The systems were designed and built to move people downtown, not out 270, not out 66, not to Suitland, not down to PAX in St. Mary's County. No one anticipated the Beltway would become a commuter route, it was meant to divert interstate traffic around DC. No one believed Southern Maryland would become home to large numbers of DC workers. The daily out migration to jobs for both Calvert and Charles Counties is over 60%. St. Mary's isn't far behind that number even with the PAX expansion from BRAC. None of that showed up on any radar (in fact, Calvert leaders and residents denied it was happening through the 1980s into the 90s, yet they couldn't explain why there had to be a new school built every year).
Everything built or planned since 1985 or so has been to take the new reality into account. The transportation net was designed in the 1950s and 60s but was outdated a few years after it was completed.
I am moving to MD soon and I asked for a place to live. Everyone strongly recommended me to be as close as work as possible. I will definitely follow that advice. However, I am wondering how is possible that the traffic is so bad. I have checked on youtube some videos and it looks like for example the 495 has 4 lines each direction... that is a lot!!
What are the reason for the traffic congestion? Maybe, the low speed limit? Maybe the that people do not use to drive on the right line? Maybe a lot of control of police with a big risk of fine?
What are your thoughts?
Thanks!
This will only affect you if you have to drive in Virginia, during rush hour, but it's an indication of the congestion levels. On the section of I 66 between downtown DC and I 495/Beltway you cannot drive alone during rush hours. Must have two people in car for both lanes. Inbound 6am-9.30am, and outbound 3.30pm-7.00pm. Buses use the shoulder during these hours also.
First offense $150, fourth offense $1,000 plus 3 points.
First off high density population is not sprawl, sprawl is the opposite. When there is lower density so more people drive instead of walk or take public transit for not just commuting, but every day task.
This is the problem outside the beltway, there is a great deal of sprawl, fewer walkable areas, and thus traffic tends to be far worse. Inside the beltway, and especially inside DC itself, this is less of an issue. In fact many of us do not have cars inside DC because of the higher density.
The point is, if you don't want traffic, move into an area you do not need to drive. An area which is higher density and walkable, basically the exact opposite of sprawl.
Understand the context I was speaking of which was about macro-density and not micro-density. The DC/Baltimore metro area, as a whole, is a higher density (more people per-square mile) compared to smaller more isolated metros with little to no sprawl that won't necessarily have high impact traffic.
I know what high density and low density is in terms of a localized area (DC inside the Beltway vs. outside the Beltway). There is a reason they call the NE corridor between DC and Boston a megalopolis. Hence, the higher volumes of traffic that you won't find necessarily in Indianapolis, IN or Columbus, OH, for example, which may also have sprawl where neighborhood tracts are more spread out and not tightly clustered.
You can't argue that there isn't a high density, cluster, gathering, concentration, or whatever you want to call it, of sprawl in the DC/Baltimore metro areas.
Understand the context I was speaking of which was about macro-density and not micro-density. The DC/Baltimore metro area, as a whole, is a higher density (more people per-square mile) compared to smaller more isolated metros with little to no sprawl that won't necessarily have high impact traffic.
I know what high density and low density is in terms of a localized area (DC inside the Beltway vs. outside the Beltway). There is a reason they call the NE corridor between DC and Boston a megalopolis. Hence, the higher volumes of traffic that you won't find necessarily in Indianapolis, IN or Columbus, OH, for example, which may also have sprawl where neighborhood tracts are more spread out and not tightly clustered.
You can't argue that there isn't a high density, cluster, gathering, concentration, or whatever you want to call it, of sprawl in the DC/Baltimore metro areas.
What I am saying is sprawl has a very specific meaning. It means low density suburban development, even more specifically ex-urban development. Sprawl is not high density in it's overall design. The classic example of sprawl is London county.
Part of the problem in the DC area, apart from movement outside the city core, is that when the transportation system was designed (both road and mass transit) no one predicted the move of jobs to outside areas.
The systems were designed and built to move people downtown, not out 270, not out 66, not to Suitland, not down to PAX in St. Mary's County. No one anticipated the Beltway would become a commuter route, it was meant to divert interstate traffic around DC. No one believed Southern Maryland would become home to large numbers of DC workers. The daily out migration to jobs for both Calvert and Charles Counties is over 60%. St. Mary's isn't far behind that number even with the PAX expansion from BRAC. None of that showed up on any radar (in fact, Calvert leaders and residents denied it was happening through the 1980s into the 90s, yet they couldn't explain why there had to be a new school built every year).
Everything built or planned since 1985 or so has been to take the new reality into account. The transportation net was designed in the 1950s and 60s but was outdated a few years after it was completed.
There is not much out migration to either Calvert or Charles county. If you look at the employment density heat maps, as well as the new job growth, these two areas are actually furthest from the job corridors. Most of the employment is being created either in and around the 66 corridor, or inside the beltway itself. In fact in recent years the trend of outmigration of employment has largely reversed, and more jobs are going back into DC. You seem pretty ill informed with regards to the actual data on this matter. The major job growth areas as it stands are NoVA, and DC, with Silver Spring and Bethesda playing a secondary role. Calvert and Charles are largely far flung exurbs, which are furthest geographically from the actual job generation. I should note, very few people who live in DC area commute to jobs there, rather it's the reverse. Most of the jobs remain concentrated in DC, Montgomery County, Arlington, Fairfax, and Alexandria. Really most of it is in DC and Northern Virginia. The major growth was in Tysons for a number of years. Don't believe me...look at the map. The growing distance between people and jobs in metropolitan America | Brookings Institution
There is no real reverse commute to Charles or Calvert, but there is to Tysons and Arlington.
This is likely to continue as there is an inversion of employment growth back into DC itself in the last couple of years.
I should note, this is the 7th largest metro area in the country. Traffic is going to be bad. Like it or not there is a way to avoid traffic, make enough where you can get a place where you don't have to drive around so much. Unlike many cities, driving is not something one has to do.
Last edited by DistrictSonic; 02-06-2016 at 03:49 PM..
There is not much out migration to either Calvert or Charles county. If you look at the employment density heat maps, as well as the new job growth, these two areas are actually furthest from the job corridors. Most of the employment is being created either in and around the 66 corridor, or inside the beltway itself. In fact in recent years the trend of outmigration of employment has largely reversed, and more jobs are going back into DC. You seem pretty ill informed with regards to the actual data on this matter. The major job growth areas as it stands are NoVA, and DC, with Silver Spring and Bethesda playing a secondary role. Calvert and Charles are largely far flung exurbs, which are furthest geographically from the actual job generation. I should note, very few people who live in DC area commute to jobs there, rather it's the reverse. Most of the jobs remain concentrated in DC, Montgomery County, Arlington, Fairfax, and Alexandria. Really most of it is in DC and Northern Virginia. The major growth was in Tysons for a number of years. Don't believe me...look at the map. The growing distance between people and jobs in metropolitan America | Brookings Institution
There is no real reverse commute to Charles or Calvert, but there is to Tysons and Arlington.
This is likely to continue as there is an inversion of employment growth back into DC itself in the last couple of years.
I should note, this is the 7th largest metro area in the country. Traffic is going to be bad. Like it or not there is a way to avoid traffic, make enough where you can get a place where you don't have to drive around so much. Unlike many cities, driving is not something one has to do.
I'm not misinformed at all, you need to work on your reading comprehension and notice what I said about where people in Southern Maryland are going to work. And get informed about where the fastest residential growth in Maryland was from 1985 to 2005 (hint: the names of the Counties begin with the letter C).
With exception of PAX, I didn't say one word about job growth in Southern Maryland.
You didn't understand a word I wrote did you?
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