What is the REAL reason people hate PG County so much?? (Baltimore: hotel, neighborhoods)

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by pgtvatitans

Lol. No not at all. I'll just call it two people seeing things the same way. I think people have to be willing to accept the truth to hear what you are saying. If people walk into this conversation with a certain mindset, they are only looking to validate their views instead of seeing the merit of yours.

This conversation reminds me of a column I read in Washington Times a few weeks ago.

Anyone interested should check it out and see how that same mentality is playing out in this conversation.

SOWELL: The race-hustlers among us - Washington Times

I think you failed to comprehend the article you tried to use to prove a misguided point about the "mentality playing out in this conversation." No one here is saying that PGC is incapable of achieving great things because of the majority minority demographics or some mentality that because of their race, they can't achieve parity with the rest of the DC area. In fact, many of us keep pointing out that the county is making good progress despite the reluctance of some to acknowledge that progress. I think the spirit of this conversation is that there have been historical factors where institutional racism and prejudice also played a part in the lack of balance in the region despite the noble efforts of the black community. There are certain facts about historical inequality that are hard to ignore. Why do you think blacks migrated east toward the working-class whites instead of west into Republican led counties and state which supposedly had better jobs and schools? Barriers exist that dictate the ebb and flow of ethnic migration. Those barriers can include culture, race, economics, and politics.

Speaking of the Asian comparison of attitude and success, the Asian experience as prisoners in camps and then as immigrants is different than the black experience, where blacks were told they were 3/4 human and treated as such, Jim Crow, etc. I agree that in some instances, blaming everyone but yourself for your failures is a cop-out, but ignoring institutional racism and prejudice and their long-term effects in this society is to be ill-informed. Even if we tried to eliminate those factors when looking at the world today, it would be impossible. Racism and prejudice still exists. We're not all sitting around the campfire singing Kumbaya just yet.

If PGC was hustling race as a mentality, I don't think it could move forward as it has in the last 10 years. "There's just no way we can compete because we're majority African American." That is simply not the case in the county or here in this discussion. The county and a few here are well aware of this county's assets and they are trying to capitalize on them as best as anyone can.

[justtitans]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

I think you failed to comprehend the article you tried to use to prove a misguided point about the "mentality playing out in this conversation." No one here is saying that PGC is incapable of achieving great things because of the majority minority demographics or some mentality that because of their race, they can't achieve parity with the rest of the DC area.

Oh really? Let's see what you said earlier.

With continue perceptions out there today between races, the cards are stacked a bit higher against PGC than other areas.

But you just said in this quote is basically because of race, PG has it harder, is that not what you said?* This is all about semantics.* You are trying to find a loophole of saying that I didn't say that PG couldn't do anything, but that's not the essence of the article.* The article is talking about the constant need to blame others for not succeeding.* You clear as day just said that PG has a harder time because of race.

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

I think the spirit of this conversation is that there have been historical factors where institutional racism and prejudice also played a part in the lack of balance in the region despite the noble efforts of the black community. There are certain facts about historical inequality that are hard to ignore. Why do you think blacks migrated east toward the working-class whites instead of west into Republican led counties and state which supposedly had better jobs and schools? Barriers exist that dictate the ebb and flow of ethnic migration. Those barriers can include culture, race, economics, and politics.

Again I don't deny that racism exist.* It's the degree that which it is called upon that doesn't make sense.* PG County doesn't have this issue when it comes to it's own issues.* Are you going to say that someone has stopped PG from having better schools, or stopping crime?* At what point does it become, well that is something WE could have done better?*

Your point about Republican led counties is simply not true.* Arlington, which is one of most liberal/Democratic counties in the country, is about 9% black.* Fauquier County, which is predominantly Republican leaning, has an almost 9% black population.* Two places with two different political views are not black.* Why is that the case?* It's obviously not political affiliation.* Fairfax County, which is predominantly Democratic leaning these days, also has a 9% black population.* There is clearly other reasons keep black people from these places.* Also who said black migrated east?* Maybe they never lived in VA in the first place?* Most of the black people who moved to Maryland moved from the south for better job opportunities.*

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

Speaking of the Asian comparison of attitude and success, the Asian experience as prisoners in camps and then as immigrants is different than the black experience, where blacks were told they were 3/4 human and treated as such, Jim Crow, etc.

So you are saying something that happened almost 200 years ago affects how successful black people are now?* But didn't you go to college?* Didn't you get a degree?* Don't you have a high paying job? * Don't you own a house?* How were you able to do that?* Why can't other black people do the same thing as you?

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

If PGC was hustling race as a mentality, I don't think it could move forward as it has in the last 10 years. "There's just no way we can compete because we're majority African American." That is simply not the case in the county or here in this discussion. The county and a few here are well aware of this county's assets and they are trying to capitalize on them as best as anyone can.

Again semantics.* The article again is not addressing whether you think you can accomplish something but are still being held back, it's addressing the fact that you are dependent on excuses for justifying a lack of achievement.* No one can take the blame for PG County's problems, but PG.

Who fault is it that Jack Johnson was elected? Who fault is it that he reelected? Who elected the school board? Who is teaching these men to impregnate these women and not raise their kids? Who fault is it that parents don't go to PTA meetings? Who fault is it that crime is higher than most neighboring districts? Who fault is it that people don't attend community meetings about development?

[tcave360]

Originally Posted by vicnice

PG County is backwards, no businesses, traffic cameras EVERYWHERE and no shopping or decent metro stations. Why would anyone move to PG vs Moco or Arlington. PG is happy about a Casino for a thousand jobs wtf---Alexandria is fighting to get FBI HEADQUARTERS which will bring 10s of thousands of jobs, plus contractors and associated money.

PG just doesn't understand business. That's right up there with racism and often overlooked.

Profit > Racism most times. If oil was in PG, Exxon wouldn't avoid it because it was black, they would setup shop right in the middle of landover. PG needs revitalization from a business perspective.

And PG isn't? Especially with all the attention the County and state leadership are placing on the Greenbelt Metro station area....

[tcave360]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

Are you speaking in terms of TOD here? If so, then I agree.



MGM will be a place where people can catch a show, eat a meal at a celebrity chef's restaurant, get spa treatments, shop some luxury retail, and yes, play some slots while they're at it. As far as shows are concerned, no one complains about MoCo getting the Fillmore. And trust me, when there are sporting events at MGM, there will be people standing in line for tickets. No one complains when trendy restaurants open throughout the DC area. Yet when the 8 restaurants open at MGM, no one is supposed to be happy? When a luxury hotel spa opens in Georgetown or in DC, no one has a problem, but open one in PGC, there's a feeling that it is somehow out of place. Throw a casino into the mix and PGC is just down right stupid, immoral, and inept. lol And if I was an investor, I can't say I wouldn't want the same type of project being so close to 3 of the top 5 counties in the nation. Maryland Live seemed to have been built with little criticism in this forum and their location is horrible with Baltimore an PGC getting a casino. But PGC is incompetent? No one here called Anne Arundel county incompetent.



Doesn't hurt to do a little research. Fairfax County is fighting for the Springfield Location, not Alexandria. Also, you'll find out that PGC is spending just as much energy and resources on getting the FBI as Fairfax is. You'll also know that Greenbelt is becoming the most preferred location. Some people familiar with the situation are beginning to believe the Springfield location is becoming less likely due to important, less publicized, government functions at the current site.



It would be easy to simply PGC's problems into that statement, but that is simply not true. There are many other factors that are attributed to the imbalance of white-collar jobs in the area.

Now if we want to talk about elephants in the room, I'll just go right on out and say it. PGC is not white enough. People like to compare a majority minority county with it's whiter counterparts and assume the disparity is from it's incompetence. But when you look at any other area of life, statistics consistently show African Americans on a whole make less than their white counterparts. Does that make African Americans incompetent in their professions because they make less? Or how about whites holding more wealth than African Americans? Or how about whites attaining more college education than African Americans? Does that mean African Americans are dumber? No. Whites have had an advantage for centuries. And yes, PGC was once white before and I imagine if it had stayed white, there would be different perceptions about it today. And something tells me PGC wouldn't be looked upon as incompetent or crime-ridden, etc. Would we have more white-collar jobs if that were the case? Maybe. Remember, companies like to locate where there are educated individuals with white-collar experience. With continue perceptions out there today between races, the cards are stacked a bit higher against PGC than other areas.

So when I look at PGC today and see the positive strides it is making, regardless of NH, I have a greater respect. Because it could be a lot worse like Detroit or south-side Chicago.

My point is that it is hard to say that PGC is the way it is because of incompetence when there are other factors involved that date back decades involving inequality among the majority populations in the wealthiest counties and PGC. No one understands how neighborhoods were formed back in the 60s where African Americans were red-lined to certain undesirable neighborhoods. No one understands how after the DC riots in the 60s, blacks looked for safer neighborhoods in the suburbs of PGC back when the suburbs were looked upon as middle-class and safe, thus turning the county majority black bringing with them all the socioeconomic and demographic issues of being black in America. And when blacks from out-of-town came looking for jobs, they chose to settle down in PGC which would have been more receptive to them than the other counties. These factors cannot be ignored.

On the other hand, I agree that lack of leadership can be part of the blame, but it can't be the only blame.

This.

[tcave360]

Originally Posted by vicnice

PG County is backwards, no businesses, traffic cameras EVERYWHERE and no shopping or decent metro stations. Why would anyone move to PG vs Moco or Arlington. PG is happy about a Casino for a thousand jobs wtf---Alexandria is fighting to get FBI HEADQUARTERS which will bring 10s of thousands of jobs, plus contractors and associated money.

PG just doesn't understand business. That's right up there with racism and often overlooked.

Profit > Racism most times. If oil was in PG, Exxon wouldn't avoid it because it was black, they would setup shop right in the middle of landover. PG needs revitalization from a business perspective.

You see traffic cams all over the damn metro area. Come on vicnice, your usually better than this.

[tcave360]

Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer

Prince George's County has some nice areas and attractions - contrary to some people's perceptions:

The University of Maryland
College Park airport
Greenbelt park
Greenbelt lake
Goddard Space Flight Center
Lake Artemesia
Freeway airport
Restaurants along Rte. 1.
FedEx Field
Fort Washington
National Harbor, etc.

These places and others are as good as any in the Washington, D.C. area.

Lack of knowledge is no excuse (and I live in Montgomery County). ;-)

Caught my very first fish there when I was little I even thought we were gonna fry it LOL. It wasn't big though, I think it looked like it was at least 5 or 6 inches.

[tcave360]

Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer

Prince George's County has some nice areas and attractions - contrary to some people's perceptions:

The University of Maryland
College Park airport
Greenbelt park
Greenbelt lake
Goddard Space Flight Center
Lake Artemesia
Freeway airport
Restaurants along Rte. 1.
FedEx Field
Fort Washington
National Harbor, etc.

These places and others are as good as any in the Washington, D.C. area.

Lack of knowledge is no excuse (and I live in Montgomery County). ;-)

I would also like to add:

Mount Rainier (Practically a hidden gem of a city despite its growing appeal across the Greater DC Area).
City of Hyattsville
Hispanic restaurants and hole-in-the-walls in Langley Park.
University Town Center
Six Flags America
Downtown Upper Marlboro
The scenic drive along BW Parkway.
Wegman's
Dutch Village Farmer's Market in Upper Marlboro (I LOVE this place, especially their lemonade and bourbon chicken).
Bowie State University
And of course, the beautiful women!!!!! They don't call us "Pretty Girl County" for nothing! lol

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by tcave360

I would also like to add:

Mount Rainier (Practically a hidden gem of a city despite its growing appeal across the Greater DC Area).
City of Hyattsville
Hispanic restaurants and hole-in-the-walls in Langley Park.
University Town Center
Six Flags America
Downtown Upper Marlboro
The scenic drive along BW Parkway.
Wegman's
Dutch Village Farmer's Market in Upper Marlboro (I LOVE this place, especially their lemonade and bourbon chicken).
Bowie State University
And of course, the beautiful women!!!!! They don't call us "Pretty Girl County" for nothing! lol

I'd take University Town Center off that list. It's in a funk right now and except for a few businesses such as the theater and Carolina Kitchen, there's not much to get excited about. Hopefully that will change after the new Safeway is built.

[tcave360]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

I'd take University Town Center off that list. It's in a funk right now and except for a few businesses such as the theater and Carolina Kitchen, there's not much to get excited about. Hopefully that will change after the new Safeway is built.

True. It's pretty similar to Woodmore Town Center as well. Things have been kinda slow for both MUDs but they still do have plenty of potential once new leases and/or new construction commence. WTC does have the advantage of Wegmans and the new Copper Canyon Grill and UTC is near PG Plaza Mall (Wouldn't it be nice if Westfield take up ownership of that mall?). Both places got the potential but they still got some catching up to do as a result of the past recession.

[Steelers10]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

Why do you think blacks migrated east toward the working-class whites instead of west into Republican led counties and state which supposedly had better jobs and schools? Barriers exist that dictate the ebb and flow of ethnic migration. Those barriers can include culture, race, economics, and politics.

To be specific, blacks moving into PGC wasn't happenstance. The "barrier" of which you speak was the Federal Government, specifically the FHA. When suburbanization ramped up after WWII, blacks could get FHA loans, but not if they were to be used to integrate neighborhoods. Therefore, blacks in the 50s and 60s were able to get loans for homes in areas adjacent to the mostly black SE but by and large not in areas in MoCo adjacent to the mostly white NW.

Hence, the "Black Flight" into PGC just became a self-fulfilling prophecy. The opposition to subsidized housing on the behalf of Republicans is complete lip service. If subsidized housing were to be eliminated then low-income blacks would not evaporate, but simply move to the areas that are cheapest: mainly majority-Republican counties. Blacks historically were willing to pay more than the houses were worth for homes occupied by working-class whites. Hence, the movement into PGC was a win-win for financial institutions as it evolved into one of the few places in the country where new home communities could be marketed exclusively to black home seekers. You guys should check out "Blue Chip Black" by Karyn Lacy if you haven't read it already; a must read for suburban DC residents!