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I find at a certain density point, areas transition from urban to more suburban. Although, of course suburbs or cities can be of any density... For instance, certainly anything under 3,000 people per square mile is pretty spread out in my mind and feels different. I like closer infrastructure and housing personally..
But I do think you are over-generalizing everyone's views on population density. There are great cities and areas with ANY density.
I couldn't agree with you any more strongly. In fact, your last sentence effectively summarizes the entire point I was trying to make.
There is a certain contingent here, and in the real world, that doesn't understand this point. And many of us who live in less-dense environments are more or less fed up with them.
I don't see what's so good about density. If a city is dense, all that means is that the city is crowded. I would prefer to live in a non-crowded city.
No I disagree on all points. Anyplace less than 10K /sq mile is the boondocks and not worth a mention.
I'm pretty sure your joking but, anyway. If any city less than 10,000 people sq. mile is the boondocks, than I guess Dallas, Houston, and Fort Worth are deserted farmlands.
It is not an unassailable virtue. Meaning, people who live in less-dense cities are not evil, environment-hating rednecks, nor are Manhattanites necessarily paragons of sustainable living.
It is not an objectively "superior" type of lifestyle. Density isn't "hip" to everyone. It is but one of many possible lifestyle choices.
By itself, it does not make any one city superior to another. One must take into account a whole range of factors to make such assessments. Saying that "City A is better than City B simply because City A is denser" is an asinine line of thought.
By itself, it does not translate into better livability. Some of the densest cities in the world are in developing and middle-income nations. They're hardly livable areas.
Density exists in virtually every city in the world. The people who want to live in dense environments have no shortage of choices, so I'm not sure why they must constantly criticize people who do not share their lifestyle preferences.
Yes, there can be "dense sprawl." Los Angeles? Miami?
The market should be the ultimate force that shapes which areas are dense and which aren't, not government. People who want to live in dense environments should have that option, as should people who prefer less density or even, *gasp*, sprawl.
Your thoughts?
1. True, most people are just trying to do their thing and probably don't even think about it. They just live in areas they are familiar with or grew up in.
2. Most people don't live in densely built areas because they are hip, but because they are convenient to amenities, transportation, and are pedestrian friendly. The notion that dense city neighborhoods are hip has only been around about 50 years, and is a result of former blue collar areas attracting hipster types. Most inner city areas are not hip anyway.
3. Denser cities usually offer more opportunities to live in pedestrian friendly neighborhoods, have better transit, and have more dynamic street life. This is why people prefer urban density and is why those types will view cities that offer more of these characteristics as superior. Those who don't can always live in the outer burbs, which provide pretty much the same lifestyle in any metro area.
4. Density has nothing to do with economic development. It is obvious that living in a Calcutta slum would suck, but many of the most livable cities have very high population densities. Case in point:
5. I think the criticism is aimed more so at poor planning practices than individuals. Often suburban sprawl is haphazardly built and in some cases can be a drain on existing areas that are already developed. This is inefficient and does not consider sustainability.
6. Very true, but I think this is poor planning practice. What is the point of living in a dense area that does not provide pedestrian access or transit? If you live in such an area wouldn't you want more room to breath?
7. I agree, but it is not that simple. The government has subsidized sprawl at the expense of urban areas for decades. Here are some articles.
It is not an unassailable virtue. Meaning, people who live in less-dense cities are not evil, environment-hating rednecks, nor are Manhattanites necessarily paragons of sustainable living.
It is not an objectively "superior" type of lifestyle. Density isn't "hip" to everyone. It is but one of many possible lifestyle choices.
By itself, it does not make any one city superior to another. One must take into account a whole range of factors to make such assessments. Saying that "City A is better than City B simply because City A is denser" is an asinine line of thought.
By itself, it does not translate into better livability. Some of the densest cities in the world are in developing and middle-income nations. They're hardly livable areas.
Density exists in virtually every city in the world. The people who want to live in dense environments have no shortage of choices, so I'm not sure why they must constantly criticize people who do not share their lifestyle preferences.
Yes, there can be "dense sprawl." Los Angeles? Miami?
The market should be the ultimate force that shapes which areas are dense and which aren't, not government. People who want to live in dense environments should have that option, as should people who prefer less density or even, *gasp*, sprawl.
Your thoughts?
Excellent points. This is pretty much how I think about density. I have no problem with people seeking a dense area to live, just let me live in a low density area. Where I'm moving to in a year or so, the density would qualify as borderline frontier; I'm just counting the days.
Hey some people really like high-density living and believe that its superior to low-density sprawl. They're entitled to their opinion. Other's don't. They're also entitled to that opinion. What's the problem?*
* I also mostly agree with 5Lakes, but aside from the issue of subsidized sprawl, I don't think people are wrong/evil/stupid because they disagree with me.
Hey some people really like high-density living. They're entitled to their opinion. Other's don't. They're also entitled to that opinion. What's the problem?
I fully agree with you - the problem is that there are quite a few who don't agree with the section I highlighted in bold from your statement.
I fully agree with you - the problem is that there are quite a few who don't agree with the section I highlighted in bold from your statement.
This is an internet forum. The whole point of this forum is for people to have debates/arguments over differences of opinion. I can respect your right to hold a different opinion, while at the same time challenging you to rationally and logically defend it, and vice versa. No one's belief system is entitled to be free from questioning/criticism.
Many previously suburban looking communities have become dense with high rises and lots of homes sitting right next to each other without room for trees or landscaping. Many long term residents are angry that the community they moved to years ago to escape the high density urban environment is now more like the city they escaped from.
Developers and their friends in the media push high density development as great even though many people would prefer to live in an area with lots of trees, big lawns and lots of open space. But the developers make lots more money if they can punch in as many homes as they can in a small area. To push this through the planning commission and city council they work with the media to make high density sound hip.
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