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I see sidewalks, a bus stop a half-block in one direction and a business district a half-block in another. Parks and an elementary school nearby. And only four lanes of traffic.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
Americans have an abysmally low standard for walkability. A "walkable" area is any place that has sidewalks and less than six lanes of traffic.
What would qualify as an unwalkable area to you? The Atacama?
The obsession with "amenities" in urban areas is a pretty new thing. Nobody talked or cared much about "amenities" in Bed-Stuy in 1991. When I was kid, we usually left Philadelphia to do most of our grocery shopping. Even today, most people drive out to King of Prussia to do their real shopping because that's where the money's always been.
Fast forward to 2012, and "amenities" have become all the rage for real estate agents and transplants. They provide bragging rights for suburban, inner city transplants over other suburban, inner city transplants in less happening "nabes." "I can walk around the corner and get two pints of hummus before Jon Stewart goes off" is a statement you'll likely hear. And Walk Score just feeds into that. It's just another way for real estate agents to hype up the urban lifestyle where "fun, work, restaurants and play are just footsteps away!"
Ask a long-time resident about their neighborhood. You will probably hear things like proximity to family, close bonds with friends and neighbors, communal interactions and places of worship. Ask a newer resident and you’ll likely to hear about “amenities” like restaurants, organic markets, wine stores, coffee shoppes w/ WiFi, Korean convenient store, etc. or lack thereof, in which case they will note that the “nabe” is “up and coming”, then point out a few restaurants or a place where they get good expresso and check facebook work on their writing (Does everyone now get writing inspiration in coffee shops? Hmm). Next they might let you know about a vacant storefront with a speculative wish list (like restaurants, organic markets, wine stores, coffee shoppes w/ WiFi, Korean convenient store, etc. Please NO BODEGAS! Bodegas spell doom to some folks). Here in CH for example, a place like Choice on Lafayette, was looked at like a godsend to the hood if you let newer residents tell it. For us oldtimers the place was just a new spot to get something to eat.
Sounds like Santa Monica.
Do recent transplants really hate bodegas? I love, love, love the Yucca Market in my neighborhood - you can get so much stuff you'd never be able to get at a Trader Joe's or Wholefoods.
From what I have read / heard, it sounds like DC and NYC are two cities that are starting to get over-gentrified in a lot of places (in LA I can think of SM and Silverlake, maybe Los Feliz as being over-gentrified). I'm glad my neighborhood still terrifies my out-of-town / suburban guests a little bit.
They are "low class" to most transplants. They'd much rather have a shop that sells organic soybean milkshakes or something.
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Originally Posted by munchitup
From what I have read / heard, it sounds like DC and NYC are two cities that are starting to get over-gentrified in a lot of places (in LA I can think of SM and Silverlake, maybe Los Feliz as being over-gentrified). I'm glad my neighborhood still terrifies my out-of-town / suburban guests a little bit.
In my mind, it's not so much about the absolute numbers of gentrifiers as it is the sharp contrast you see between two different worlds. On the one hand, there are people who do yoga exercises in the park, drop $5 on lattes and sit leisurely outside of coffeeshops and read Malcolm Gladwell. On the other hand, there's a much larger population of people in the background that just lost a minimum wage job, just buried a son, or just got their results back from an HIV test. There's so much depression and gravitas in a place like Brooklyn (and Manhattan) with so many transplants just frolicking in the middle of it. It's kind of like the scene in the Titanic where you've got the monied class having a ball upstairs while the working class gets to suck up absestos and fumes down below.
And there are many places in New York City that you would not want to live in. I think you have it in your head that this is some type of Hipster Haven when New York City is still, for the most part, a pretty rough town.
What would qualify as an unwalkable area to you? The Atacama?
Yeah, that'd do it. For me, anyway. Some might like it.
Seriously, the presence of four lanes of traffic makes a neighborhood unwalkable? In that one instance, you wouldn't even have to cross a street to get to dozens of stores etc. And I was sure I saw well-marked crosswalks and walk/don't walk signs. Looks walkable to me.
Unwalkable, and I'll use my own neighborhood as an example, is a two-lane U.S. highway where nobody obeys the speed limit, there are no sidewalks, and not even berms to walk on.
Seriously, the presence of four lanes of traffic makes a neighborhood unwalkable? In that one instance, you wouldn't even have to cross a street to get to dozens of stores etc. And I was sure I saw well-marked crosswalks and walk/don't walk signs.
Fast traffic is very intimidating. Canyou walk across a street with fast traffic? Sure. But more lanes and faster traffic dissuades most people from walking. And if you decide to walk, you might end up feeling the feeling the author describes here:
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You may well find yourself within walking distance of a store, or a movie theater, or some other amenity that is accounted for by Walk Score’s algorithms. There might even be a sidewalk that provides safe passage, and a button to push at the intersection to make the light change in your favor. But you usually will be walking alongside a river of cars, and the people in those cars will be thinking that you are strange. They will pity you. You will know this.
That is funny. That's exactly what I feel when I see people walking around spread out areas. "Damn, his car must have broken down. I'd give him a ride if I didn't have to go to the movies/pick up my fiancee/go to the barbershop/renew my Netflix account/sync my iPhone/use the bathroom/make a run for ice cream/pay the cable bill/watch America's Next Top Model, etc."
This is also true.
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And that sense of being a social outlier, along with the hot tedium of walking past parking lot after parking lot, strip mall after strip mall, none of which are designed for your use, is enough to make you want to get in a car.
And there are many places in New York City that you would not want to live in. I think you have it in your head that this is some type of Hipster Haven when New York City is still, for the most part, a pretty rough town.
Oh of course. If I ever let on otherwise it was most likely in the middle of a pissing match and I was just being hyperbolic. When I stayed in NYC I was with my uncle in south Brooklyn in a very heavily Eastern-European neighborhood (he married a Russian-Jewish woman). Not a gentrifier in sight, it was a very "real" neighborhood. I certainly think New York is closer to that than to the most puke-worthy blocks of Williamsburgh.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
Didn't you grow up in a small town anyway?
Eh, for California standards, yes. Santa Maria has a population of over 100,000 (plus probably 20-30k in illegal immigrants) and about 150k-200k in the immediate area, and a very car-centric style density with a lot of tracts at 10-14k ppsm. Anyone that knows the nature of the city would say it is far from an idyllic place - in fact my mother always gripes that there is not a single bookstore in the entire city.
Last edited by munchitup; 08-14-2012 at 12:58 PM..
The obsession with "amenities" in urban areas is a pretty new thing. Nobody talked or cared much about "amenities" in Bed-Stuy in 1991.
When I moved to Baltimore in 1986 I chose among nabes like Bolton Hill, Federal Hill, Mt Vernon, etc. I was definitely aware of the retail and cultural amenities in each area. I'm not sure what word I would have used.
On the other hand, there's a much larger population of people in the background that just lost a minimum wage job, just buried a son, or just got their results back from an HIV test.
I was recently at a funeral where two parents buried their 40 YO daughter (cancer). We know a woman who buried her teenage son not long ago (a traffic accident)
Tragedy and sadness fall all across the socioeconomic spectrum, as do joy and celebration.
I don't see any reason why new people moving into a different neighborhood need to be somber. I doubt that would benefit the people already there. What they SHOULD do is support policies that lessen the income inequality in our country. AFAICT the people moving into those areas are more likely to do that than their opposite numbers who stay in the suburbs.
That's exactly what I feel when I see people walking around spread out areas. "Damn, his car must have broken down. I'd give him a ride if I didn't have to go to the movies/pick up my fiancee/go to the barbershop/renew my Netflix account/sync my iPhone/use the bathroom/make a run for ice cream/pay the cable bill/watch America's Next Top Model, etc."
What's spread out? That commercial district is a half block from the address in question. That sounds pretty damn handy to me.
I don't care what people think of me when I'm walking somewhere anyway. If what people are potentially thinking of me gives me the willies, I have deeper problems than trying to cross four lanes of traffic. With a traffic light. And a well-marked crosswalk.
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