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Nearly 3 months ago I was approved for CTB. My previous employer just appealed the decision. My hearing did not go well since the employer lied and was allowed to submit evidentiary documents that were never given to me before the hearing. Her argument was completely different from what the original argument was when I received the hearing notice. Why would an employer appeal a decision for an old employee's CTB approval? Why would the state allow a previous employer who fired someone and harassed them and obviously has it out for them to have any say in that person's future? I believe that, as long as I can still meet eligibility requirements for unemployment (which I do), I can still receive the remainder of my unemployment benefits. Can anyone confirm that?
By law,your employer can contest your CTB if it was self-arranged training meaning it was not a "EDD pre-approved" training. It seems your training must be self-arranged because the employer wouldn't have been able to contest it in the first place if it wasn't. That said, I'm unsure what basis would be sufficient for an ALJ to deny an approval. You didn't say what the employer's rationale was to deny you either, so can't comment further.
Are you still in your regular claim (first 26 weeks) or are you collecting on the Training Extension yet? This would be the main reason why your employer would contest your CTB--I believe they pay for the Training Extension.
Thank you for answering. Yes, it is self arranged. Employer says my current skills are in demand and I don't need any sort of training to get a job right now. I am still in my first 26 weeks, so that makes a lot of sense that she wants me to be found ineligible so she doesn't have to pay during an extention. I could not figure out why this would even matter to her.
Since you did self-arranged, I believe part of that process includes strongly justifying why you need new skills, etc. Assume you rebutted her claims with your own career info/data, etc. originally compiled to justify the training in the first place. If so, an ALJ could very well rule in your favor. Please post what happens when you get the judge's decision, curious if they will overturn the CTB determination as it's not EASY to get a self-arranged determination in the first place.
On another note--if your CTB does get overturned, depending on how unemployment continues during this pandemic, there's already a 13week extension in play beyond the regular 26 weeks & this could increase pending the "reopening" of CA & subsequent impact to the unemployment rate, so stay tuned.
Unfortunately, this is where I failed. When I received the Notice of Hearing information, the employer's appeal reason was that she assumes I am in training for office work for which I am already educated. Because this was the only argument, I was prepared to show that in fact, I am not training for office work, I am training for postsecondary education. I had that proof, but then during the hearing, the employer changed her argument to the fact that CTB should not cover higher degree programs and that office work is highly marketable. She presented some job search and pay rate information for office work and also stated that I should be able to teach with the education and experience I already have. I told the judge I am training for postsecondary education. I know that this requires a higher degree, certification, and teaching experience, but I neglected to say that directly. Though I do have a lot of office work experience, I was nevertheless unable to find work during my job searching period (I did say that). My experience is also limited to zoos and music studios, so that does not transfer easily into other fields. With this pandemic, there simply is no work being offered in office work. The online teaching field is growing by 11%. This is all information I have now, but did not have the foresight to say during the hearing since I was very much caught off-guard with a whole different argument from the one I was originally presented with and this has all been very difficult for me. I am kicking myself so much.
Thank you for taking interest in this and for your helpful information and answers. I am 99.9% sure the judge took the employer's side because I failed to properly defend myself, but I will post if not. Some people say I can appeal the appeal since I was not given all the evidence that the employer submitted and yet the employer received all of mine. But I don't know how much more I can put myself through. Losing this job and having to start over at my age has been extremely difficult.
Don't be too hard on yourself, you did your part by providing sufficient evidence to EDD to get the CTB determination in the first place. I believe it's the employer's burden to disprove any of that evidence to change the determination.
Again, I don't know of anyone having their determination challenged by an employer, so, look forward to hearing what happens. The ALJs generally know their stuff in CA & have been reliable to uphold the law. You didn't get the determination without providing labor data,etc. yourself, so unless her evidence is stronger or completely negates some of yours, you could be surprised. It's definitely a challenging time, hang in there!
Unfortunately, this is where I failed. When I received the Notice of Hearing information, the employer's appeal reason was that she assumes I am in training for office work for which I am already educated. Because this was the only argument, I was prepared to show that in fact, I am not training for office work, I am training for postsecondary education. I had that proof, but then during the hearing, the employer changed her argument to the fact that CTB should not cover higher degree programs and that office work is highly marketable. She presented some job search and pay rate information for office work and also stated that I should be able to teach with the education and experience I already have. I told the judge I am training for postsecondary education. I know that this requires a higher degree, certification, and teaching experience, but I neglected to say that directly. Though I do have a lot of office work experience, I was nevertheless unable to find work during my job searching period (I did say that). My experience is also limited to zoos and music studios, so that does not transfer easily into other fields. With this pandemic, there simply is no work being offered in office work. The online teaching field is growing by 11%. This is all information I have now, but did not have the foresight to say during the hearing since I was very much caught off-guard with a whole different argument from the one I was originally presented with and this has all been very difficult for me. I am kicking myself so much.
Thank you for taking interest in this and for your helpful information and answers. I am 99.9% sure the judge took the employer's side because I failed to properly defend myself, but I will post if not. Some people say I can appeal the appeal since I was not given all the evidence that the employer submitted and yet the employer received all of mine. But I don't know how much more I can put myself through. Losing this job and having to start over at my age has been extremely difficult.
To start with, I know nothing about CTB training, nor how it aligns with UI. But I have had experience with hearings...
Firstly - You should have been sent whatever documents etc that your ex employer wanted to have established for evidence. If you were not sent that information - then you can object that you did not receive it. (adding to this, something I didnt know at the time this happened to us... if they havent sent it to you and the Adjudicator wants to continue the hearing to another date.. you object to that.. stating that your ex employer had every opportunity to send you the information - they knew they were supposed to, as they knew to send it to the adjudicator... but chose not to. Therefore you ask to keep going with the hearing without that 'evidence' being considered).
Secondly - your job ISNT to defend yourself. Your job is to poke holes in whatever 'evidence' or explanation your ex employer is offering. The burden of proof is on them, not you.
Thirdly - you offer NO information that can be twisted or they can use against you. This includes not sending in any information to the adjudicator or to your employer, to defend yourself, prior to the hearing.
My guess is that the employer WAS going to argue the stuff you thought originally, but after reading your defense paperwork, realised they would lose and so took another tack, besides what they originally said they were going to.. and since you didnt receive any of their 'evidence' they were going to present, you dont really know what tack they were going to take. OR they sent their stuff AFTER they read what you had. Hence the reason NOT to send anything ahead of time.
Now you are locked a bit into the corner, if you ask for an appeal (if you lose at the hearing) because of what you have already said. Im hoping you won and the denial is overturned... however, just in case you didnt, please please please come back and ask for direction before you ask for an appeal on the hearing.
Theres alot I didnt know 'before' and messed up... I wouldnt want that to happen to you.
Thank you so much Kacey! This is great information and I appreciate you being willing to help if I decide to appeal further.
Regarding your first statement - I did exactly that. I objected to the employer being able to submit evidence I did not have ahead of time and even pointed out that on the hearing notice there was a date listed when all documents had to be submitted and that that date had passed. The judge overruled me. I am pretty upset about that. I was overruled simply because the employer said she did mail the information to the office, and the judge said the office must have not given it to her. This does not seem fair at all but once I was overruled there wasn't much I could so.
Regarding your third statement and following paragraph - I see that now and SO wish I had inquired on this forum before the hearing. I sent the Office of Appeals evidence showing I was not training for what the employer claimed I was training for, and the office sent the employer that information allowing her to prepare a better defense. I am so mad at myself for playing right into her hands.
Anyway, there is not anything I can do now. I guess I must chalk this up to a learning experience. But I am having trouble seeing injustice win.
Thank you so much Kacey! This is great information and I appreciate you being willing to help if I decide to appeal further.
Regarding your first statement - I did exactly that. I objected to the employer being able to submit evidence I did not have ahead of time and even pointed out that on the hearing notice there was a date listed when all documents had to be submitted and that that date had passed. The judge overruled me. I am pretty upset about that. I was overruled simply because the employer said she did mail the information to the office, and the judge said the office must have not given it to her. This does not seem fair at all but once I was overruled there wasn't much I could so.
Regarding your third statement and following paragraph - I see that now and SO wish I had inquired on this forum before the hearing. I sent the Office of Appeals evidence showing I was not training for what the employer claimed I was training for, and the office sent the employer that information allowing her to prepare a better defense. I am so mad at myself for playing right into her hands.
Anyway, there is not anything I can do now. I guess I must chalk this up to a learning experience. But I am having trouble seeing injustice win.
Thanks again
Nancy
You are very welcome!
Dont dispair.. Im pretty sure you can still appeal
Im really suprised the judge overruled your objection. Unless your ex employer had sent it certified, or receipt requested so she could prove she sent the paperwork.. its invalid.
In the case that you are overruled (again, if you appeal) then for any question that is asked of you about anything referring to the paperwork you dont have, you reply "I cant speak to anything referring to the paperwork, as I dont have it, so cannot confirm if it is correct or not".
Basically, negate and cut off anything she says that refers to the paperwork, because you dont have it, so dont know what it says, and cant speak to anything on it.
I dont know if that makes sense or not. Hopefully
Remember the UI is NOT your friend... you cant (and dont) confide in them.. their job is to ONLY find a reason to deny you benefits... so they will use everything against you, that you say, to try and do that.
There are a couple of really excellent posters who are good resources on here, so if/when you appeal.. come back on and reach out (in this same thread so everything is in one spot... just change the title in the new post saying something like 'need more help with this') and check what to do
Kind Regards
Kacey
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