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Yeah, I'm personally at the point where I feel like Higher Education is looking more and more like a SCAM these days. EVERYONE is getting a damn college degree these days, so what makes it so special? It isn't really like it was for my parent's generation anymore, when very few people were college educated and a degree was like a "golden ticket."
For me to go back to college right now and take out another $20K in debt would be financial suicide. I ALREADY am hampered by the $35K I owe. It's costing me $350 a month and loan payments and for me that's been the difference between building a good savings account or paying off CC debt, renting vs. affording a mortgage, driving a new(er) car vs. taking out way too much for a used car loan because I don't have the collateral of a good trade in.
There is absolutely NO GUARANTEE that another guarantee that another degree will find me work either. I'd be very reluctant to get a degree our certificate for these over hyped "high demand job fields" only to find out that they are saturated markets too.
I'd rather try and get into a trade or even try and grind it out in retail in hopes that I cold move up in management there. My little bro has been promoted 3 times in 1.5 yrs at Menards and he's applying for an Assistant GM position for a new store now. When I worked at one years ago I knew people there who cleared $55K in a year after bonuses.
You said it. The days of get an education, you will earn more and be successful ended somewhere around 10 years or so ago. Now, the educations are holding people back. But not just holding them back, crippling them because they have the debt, but can't get a job that covers their basic expenses even without the school loans. Its a total disaster. At some point, the whole political sales pitch on education has to end. Its making a bad situation worse. There is no need for millions of highly skilled, highly educated workers. If there was, all of the jobs wouldn't be going to China, India and illegal aliens. Education is definitely becoming a scam.
Well, I gotta tell you, I've been watching CNBC for nigh onto 10 years at least. And I figured out long ago that the place to be was 'in the market' - preferably as a trader.
Unworker, you're smart and educated. Take a couple of trading courses. Take a small amount of money and play with it. I'm pretty sure in time you'd find your way. VectorVest - I've met people who swear by Vector Vest - and Investors Business Daily both have good programs that complement each other.
My son has taken a number of stock and options trading courses. He's not doing anything with it because, frankly, he doesn't have the work ethic. But, if you made it through law school and worked for a high level law firm, you know how to work.
The guys on FastMoney on CNBC (5 p.m. ET) - all guys like you - maybe a little older - in their 30s - absolutely worth watching. FastMoney is work, though, because the brain needs to be engaged. It took me a while to understand what they were talking about, but I'll tell you their chart people saved my butt when the market was about to crash in 2008. I got out early and wasn't hurt - thanks to them.
So, you may not be able to find anything in your field, you might need to branch out a bit.
Last edited by Ariadne22; 11-16-2010 at 08:23 PM..
You said it. The days of get an education, you will earn more and be successful ended somewhere around 10 years or so ago. Now, the educations are holding people back. But not just holding them back, crippling them because they have the debt, but can't get a job that covers their basic expenses even without the school loans. Its a total disaster. At some point, the whole political sales pitch on education has to end. Its making a bad situation worse. There is no need for millions of highly skilled, highly educated workers. If there was, all of the jobs wouldn't be going to China, India and illegal aliens. Education is definitely becoming a scam.
Most people I knew from h.s. that weren't that bright but went into a trade now have nice houses, multiple cars, making steady good incomes. If invested wisely they will end up much better than me b/c they started @ 18. I kind of joked at these people back then, they knew they were dumb! They were sometimes proud of being dumb. They got married and had kids at 19-20, all the big "oh that is going to mess up your life things" But ...seems to be paying off for them now. I have the potential I suppose long time to earn more "in theory" but whether that is the case eh... not sure if it is going to play out. Here it is I am just turning 30 and I am not even playing "the game" anymore, I'm not even on the bench working grunt entry level job waiting for that promotion. I am out, just watching the game, not in the stands, but on television funneled live 24/7 from the news media, a voyeur of the American Dream and it isn't just a rain out, tune in later. The tickets have been sold to the highest bidder and there aren't any left or ways to sneak back in during the 5th inning. When I call the ticket office asking to buy one, I don't even get replies. I'm quite afraid we are locked out, as these jobs just aren't coming back. Time to go back to square one and put up some new rules, maybe some expansion teams (3rd party hello??).
I don't really think a lot of these people really want white collar workers learning their business either so...What is somebody to do who comes from low-middle income family but is now educated like many rich kids, but can't find the employment, doesn't have the rich kid hookups, and their parents don't have a trust fund or keep funneling money and inheritances to them, etc? They are also able to keep taking risks with no consequence, as they always have the money to back them up. Want to have their parents send them overseas to work or intern in France? Pay for that new apartment for them in Manhattan while they wait for a job. Yeah... education is turning out to be a bit of an empty financial promise.
Most people I knew from h.s. that weren't that bright but went into a trade now have nice houses, multiple cars, making steady good incomes. If invested wisely they will end up much better than me b/c they started @ 18. I kind of joked at these people back then, they knew they were dumb! They were sometimes proud of being dumb. They got married and had kids at 19-20, all the big "oh that is going to mess up your life things" But ...seems to be paying off for them now. I have the potential I suppose long time to earn more "in theory" but whether that is the case eh... not sure if it is going to play out. Here it is I am just turning 30 and I am not even playing "the game" anymore, I'm not even on the bench working grunt entry level job waiting for that promotion. I am out, just watching the game, not in the stands, but on television funneled live 24/7 from the news media, a voyeur of the American Dream and it isn't just a rain out, tune in later. The tickets have been sold to the highest bidder and there aren't any left or ways to sneak back in during the 5th inning. When I call the ticket office asking to buy one, I don't even get replies. I'm quite afraid we are locked out, as these jobs just aren't coming back. Time to go back to square one and put up some new rules, maybe some expansion teams (3rd party hello??).
I don't really think a lot of these people really want white collar workers learning their business either so...What is somebody to do who comes from low-middle income family but is now educated like many rich kids, but can't find the employment, doesn't have the rich kid hookups, and their parents don't have a trust fund or keep funneling money and inheritances to them, etc? They are also able to keep taking risks with no consequence, as they always have the money to back them up. Want to have their parents send them overseas to work or intern in France? Pay for that new apartment for them in Manhattan while they wait for a job. Yeah... education is turning out to be a bit of an empty financial promise.
You said it! It sounds like we come from the same background and we were offered the same empty financial promise. My brother, who works in fast food, used to mock me because he actually had a job while I was running around looking for work. He kept asking me, "Where has your fancy degree got you now, huh?" He's now going to school part-time because he wants to be a PE teacher and coach. He sees me working part-time at a nice job and he keeps saying, "You don't even do any real work! You just talk all day!"
I check the statistics on the BLS website and it claims that the job fields I will be qualified to work for once I graduate with my M.S. will increase by 12% by 2018 (?). I don't know how realistic that website is, but it's offered me a small amount of hope.
As for the formation of a third party, that could be your next job . Maybe you can rally the people together and say, "We are going to focus on job creation and not on wasting time with repealing health care or arguing about tax cuts for the rich."
Yeah, I'm personally at the point where I feel like Higher Education is looking more and more like a SCAM these days. EVERYONE is getting a damn college degree these days, so what makes it so special? It isn't really like it was for my parent's generation anymore, when very few people were college educated and a degree was like a "golden ticket."
For me to go back to college right now and take out another $20K in debt would be financial suicide. I ALREADY am hampered by the $35K I owe. It's costing me $350 a month and loan payments and for me that's been the difference between building a good savings account or paying off CC debt, renting vs. affording a mortgage, driving a new(er) car vs. taking out way too much for a used car loan because I don't have the collateral of a good trade in.
There is absolutely NO GUARANTEE that another guarantee that another degree will find me work either. I'd be very reluctant to get a degree our certificate for these over hyped "high demand job fields" only to find out that they are saturated markets too.
I'd rather try and get into a trade or even try and grind it out in retail in hopes that I cold move up in management there. My little bro has been promoted 3 times in 1.5 yrs at Menards and he's applying for an Assistant GM position for a new store now. When I worked at one years ago I knew people there who cleared $55K in a year after bonuses.
Just last night on our local ATL news they had a segment on how schools are marketing BS certificates/diplomas and degrees. These just aren't the private fly by night trade schools these include the CC's and 4 year colleges that are now doing it.
Years ago when you went to a college career counsler they were there to HELP you find the right career path that would meld with your interests and skills and to point out the pitfalls and benefits...nowadays they are shills selling you snake oil and outright lieing about what your education will get you.
Several CC's here in the ATL area are promoting certificates in medical lab and research manager...both are costly and will get you NOTHING after spending 6 months to a year at their school, I was interested so I did research by calling labs to find out if they would hire me with these certificates...the answer was no they wouldn't. Sooo, it's not only the private schools that are selling BS but the state schools that are funded by my hard earned tax dollars selling you a program that will get you nothing but more in debt.
Several CC's here in the ATL area are promoting certificates in medical lab and research manager...both are costly and will get you NOTHING after spending 6 months to a year at their school, I was interested so I did research by calling labs to find out if they would hire me with these certificates...the answer was no they wouldn't. Sooo, it's not only the private schools that are selling BS but the state schools that are funded by my hard earned tax dollars selling you a program that will get you nothing but more in debt.
Wow, that is pretty crazy. What uni/CC's are offering these types of certs? It's good that you checked it out. Very smart.
Education has become a joke these days. I saw my parents move from working class to middle class by their education. I did not understand they would be the last. Sure I saw them sending plants overseas when I was a kid. But I did not think they would send everything overseas IT legal jobs back office jobs. Now you have do more with less you need 10 workers only hire 5 to do the work of ten. I did not see the whole hire everyone part time temp or use unpaid interns. There is no OJT anymore it is a thing of the past. So you are to hit the ground running even if you new. Wages keep going down. Only you have to know more and more to get that job. I blame the colleges they keep pumping out grads for hot market jobs like nursing or IT. They know the jobs are being sent overseas or the market is flooded out. They just do not care. Ton of people flooding to grad school for what? Now they over 60k to 70k no job. And to be real what is the point if you even do land a job. It is nothing to work somewhere 3 to 5 years and get laid off. Nothing is stable anymore and those loans are forever. I was working on a MA in education state college no for profit school. They keep selling those teachers will retire. OR just move you will find a job. Once I started field work I saw they were never going to retire. And if they did die at their desk their would be 500 kids to replace him. It is a joke the college knew this but they just kept pumping out teachers. So what is the point of adding debt when their is no job.
Wow, that is pretty crazy. What uni/CC's are offering these types of certs? It's good that you checked it out. Very smart.
Here's some from the CC's in my area
Lanier tech offers a "Clinical Laboratory Assistant" certificate that will get you NO job anywhere that I've found and I called hospital and independent labs...the least they will take for a lab job is an MLT that is a 2 year degree with a national certification.
Lanier Technical College - Section - Clinical Laboratory Assistant Certificate (http://www.laniertech.edu/academic/program.asp?ProgID=291&PF=true&deptid=83 - broken link)
Gwinnett Tech offers a "Clinical Research Professional (CRP)" I had seen adds for this bogus one, so again I called research labs to see if I could get a job with this certification...again nope... I contacted several labs at UGA to see if they'd hire someone with this cert and you guessed it no way...the minimum is a BS in a related field of the research i.e. Micro, Bio or Chem. I also called the only independent research lab in my area and got the same answer. Gwinnett Technical College
These programs offered by state funded schools are total crap and you should hear how they sell the program...they sound like slimey used car salespeople. Gwinnett even ran huge one page adds trying to lure in nurses to take the course and I did ask if a nurse took the course would it make a difference..no.
I called the state board of ed to complain about these types of programs and of course that went no where...they don't care, they just want your money.
Sooooo anyone considering re-educating themselves be very very careful, do independent research about the job market and what the job would pay you. Even then it can be a wash, I did my research, there are jobs out there for certified phlebotomists, I took a course, got nationally certified and I still can't get a job even though I have over 5 years experience from decades ago. Just today I got another reject email from a local hospital. No interview, can't submit a resume, just an online application. When I first graduated I even tried going to the HR's with a slick resume and letter outlining my experience and education and they wouldn't even take it - just fill out online app. This was for entry level positions.
Oh and there is NO funding for most of these certificate programs, so you have to get a private loan at loan shark rates or pay cash.
Education has become a joke these days. I saw my parents move from working class to middle class by their education. I did not understand they would be the last. Sure I saw them sending plants overseas when I was a kid. But I did not think they would send everything overseas IT legal jobs back office jobs. Now you have do more with less you need 10 workers only hire 5 to do the work of ten. I did not see the whole hire everyone part time temp or use unpaid interns. There is no OJT anymore it is a thing of the past. So you are to hit the ground running even if you new. Wages keep going down. Only you have to know more and more to get that job. I blame the colleges they keep pumping out grads for hot market jobs like nursing or IT. They know the jobs are being sent overseas or the market is flooded out. They just do not care. Ton of people flooding to grad school for what? Now they over 60k to 70k no job. And to be real what is the point if you even do land a job. It is nothing to work somewhere 3 to 5 years and get laid off. Nothing is stable anymore and those loans are forever. I was working on a MA in education state college no for profit school. They keep selling those teachers will retire. OR just move you will find a job. Once I started field work I saw they were never going to retire. And if they did die at their desk their would be 500 kids to replace him. It is a joke the college knew this but they just kept pumping out teachers. So what is the point of adding debt when their is no job.
Tried to rep yah but I gotta spread it around...see my most current post...College is a scam for the most part.
I was working on a MA in education state college no for profit school. They keep selling those teachers will retire. OR just move you will find a job. Once I started field work I saw they were never going to retire. And if they did die at their desk their would be 500 kids to replace him. It is a joke the college knew this but they just kept pumping out teachers. So what is the point of adding debt when their is no job.
haha to get a good teacher job you need to go to like UC Berkeley these days then work in the ghetto for 2 years before you get hired.
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. Maybe you can rally the people together and say, "We are going to focus on job creation and not on wasting time with repealing health care or arguing about tax cuts for the rich."
. Sooo, it's not only the private schools that are selling BS but the state schools that are funded by my hard earned tax dollars selling you a program that will get you nothing but more in debt.
