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FWIW, I happen to think the Volt is a much different animal than the Prius. The Volt to me represents a future/bridge technology, whereas the Prius is about maximizing the efficiency of existing technology.
Naw, they'll be bringing in the next generation soon enough, it'll have the same or more capabilities that they have now plus the ability to run 30 or so miles on just electric, at speeds under 35 mph you know like most of us get tied up in in rush hour traffic everyday.
I think I prefer our plug-in Chevy Volt. 40+ mpg on the highway (uncharged, running like a gas hybrid). 250+ "mpg" for about 35-45 miles on a charge that costs us about a buck fifty.
the volt is to new with alot of new things that could go wrong wait till it is tested by other people for a few years
Anyone who runs the math on the Prius will realize that it isn't really worth it versus something like a Corolla until gas is pushing $6.50+. Of course, most buyers don't look at total costs and when they become fixated on fuel prices, they simply want the "best", which for most people equals a Prius. In its defence, it is a roomier and more optioned car at its entry point versus something like a Corolla. Additionally, I can guarantee you that they are exceedingly safe cars after managing a fleet of them and seeing the wrecks some people walked out of.
So, hate the Prius attitude, question the overall economics of it, but as a car it's pretty good for what it was designed to do.
Nonsense... Take your indisputable math and reason elsewhere!
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,762 posts, read 58,170,577 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waitingtundra
... you know like most of us get tied up in in rush hour traffic everyday.
Hope you are joking, I haven't been in rush hour more than a few times in my life.
I choose not to live in a county if it has such nuisances as traffic lights
I guess I will need to compare the interior space of my 50mpg Passat station wagon to the new prius. At least I don't have to use those toxic expensive batteries and burn fossil fuels, and I kinda enjoy 1200 miles between 'Grease / waste oil stops' with my 25 gal fuel tank. This beast cost me nearly $2000... highway robbery, best stick with a StealthRabbit for $35.00 if you want to be 'sustainable'
Not sure how the Prius is maximizing existing tech when no cars can match it. It also is the future and the PHEV version comes later this year too.
The Volt is nice for a first gen but the engine is very inefficient.
The Prius is maximizing existing tech as it is still slaved to the gas engine to run under virtually any driving condition. Even their PHEV version is extremely limited. As for no cars matching it, there are quite a few cars now getting mileage without the hybrid components that puts them within 80% or so of the Prius. Also, Toyota just happens to own the patents on the hybrid tech they use, which just happens to be the best way to do it. It's not that Honda and GM don't know how to build a hybrid, it's that they don't want to buy the tech from Toyota like Ford and Nissan are. Honda continues to plug along with their system, while GM chose to develop the two-mode system and then leapfrog to the next-gen with the Volt, which they hold all the patents on.
They do need to do a little better with the Volt's engine. IMO it is a perfect application for a diesel. However, there are many folks reporting a sustained 40 MPG after depletion of their charge, that is better than the EPA rating and equal to the most efficient cars out there. Cars that don't have the advantage of being able to go 50 miles on electric only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waitingtundra
Naw, they'll be bringing in the next generation soon enough, it'll have the same or more capabilities that they have now plus the ability to run 30 or so miles on just electric, at speeds under 35 mph you know like most of us get tied up in in rush hour traffic everyday.
You actually think those numbers are impressive? 30 miles of electric range is a decent jump over what can currently be done on a Prius, but being limited to only going 35mph on electric is really compromised considering the Volt can do 50 miles at up to 70mph on electric.
You actually think those numbers are impressive? 30 miles of electric range is a decent jump over what can currently be done on a Prius, but being limited to only going 35mph on electric is really compromised considering the Volt can do 50 miles at up to 70mph on electric.[/quote]
Well you asked so lets do some real world math, and I'd imagine I'm not the only one with similar situation. First I have a kick azz v8 pick-up that I'm keeping 15-18mpg 4 door monster with bed cover and hitch on back to role out when a hurricane a comes a knocking with a full tank and 4 extra 5 gallon cans in the back, let the wife pick up groceries and home depot on weekend and boat rest of time, 50 miles a week.
OK, back to the commuter work car. 40 miles a day commute, 5 to 7 days a week, definetly 25,000$ max, must last 10 years with little problems(dependable). Leave the house drive 30mph for a mile or so to first red light, then drive 40/50 mph for 3 miles to interstate then 70 mph on interstate for 7 miles to exit, then cut across city for 10 miles many red lights, in the morning when lights are in sync I would probably be running the Prius on mostly gas. You return the trip in the evening with much more traffic I'd definitely use up the battery's getting home, no problem the car gets 50+ miles a gallon on gas, when I get home I plug it back in and charge the battery's. On battery power the car goes 100 miles on 3$'s of electricity. You average the weekly commute out and figure you run the whole week on a few gallons of gas and 3 or 4 dollars of electricity and I'm a little impressed. On gas power the Prius actualy gets better mileage in heavy stop and go traffic than it does on the highway. It's a set up more people will be considering if gas goes north of 5$'s a gallon.
The Prius is maximizing existing tech as it is still slaved to the gas engine to run under virtually any driving condition. Even their PHEV version is extremely limited. As for no cars matching it, there are quite a few cars now getting mileage without the hybrid components that puts them within 80% or so of the Prius. Also, Toyota just happens to own the patents on the hybrid tech they use, which just happens to be the best way to do it. It's not that Honda and GM don't know how to build a hybrid, it's that they don't want to buy the tech from Toyota like Ford and Nissan are. Honda continues to plug along with their system, while GM chose to develop the two-mode system and then leapfrog to the next-gen with the Volt, which they hold all the patents on.
They do need to do a little better with the Volt's engine. IMO it is a perfect application for a diesel. However, there are many folks reporting a sustained 40 MPG after depletion of their charge, that is better than the EPA rating and equal to the most efficient cars out there. Cars that don't have the advantage of being able to go 50 miles on electric only.
You actually think those numbers are impressive? 30 miles of electric range is a decent jump over what can currently be done on a Prius, but being limited to only going 35mph on electric is really compromised considering the Volt can do 50 miles at up to 70mph on electric.
Time to bust a myth here; Ford is not buying the hybrid tech from toyota! Ford developed their own first and toyota bought a partion of it from Ford !!! As usual, toyota got a faster track to bring thiers to market than Ford did. But in goverment testing, the import companies because of trade treaties get thru government test and approvals quicker than US based companies products. A US company will take 24-25 months to get thru testing while the import brands are "fast tracked" in only 18 months.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12GO
...As usual, toyota got a faster track to bring thiers to market than Ford did. ...
Oh, yeah, after seeing the Nightly Business Report tonight that featured 'EV-Plug-in Stations' in Austin (where they 'hope' to see some customers in the next few yrs...)
I remembered the plug-in parking lot built in the 1970's for employees of the Hewlett Packard Company. We had about 10 - 15 cars at most sites. We built lots of the components for the cars from 'Open Stock'. That was back when Innovation was encouraged...
There were a few MG-B's, some Triumph TR's, a couple Simcas, and a Cortina. Soon the mini-pickups became popular conversions, but I personally always stuck with the 50 mpg grease burners.
I have a few friends who have recently made Prius E conversions, and I would like to talk them into converting a hybrid to a grease burner instead of GAS It would be nice to see a consistent 75 mpg. That is what I'm shooting for in my next Diesel Scirocco conversion (should be completed for ~ $600 and 8 hr investment).
Time to bust a myth here; Ford is not buying the hybrid tech from toyota! Ford developed their own first and toyota bought a partion of it from Ford !!! As usual, toyota got a faster track to bring thiers to market than Ford did. But in goverment testing, the import companies because of trade treaties get thru government test and approvals quicker than US based companies products. A US company will take 24-25 months to get thru testing while the import brands are "fast tracked" in only 18 months.
Absolutely incorrect. Toyota developed and patented their hybrid technology back in the late 90's. When Ford started working on hybrid powertrains they realized that several of the processes they were developing would infringe on existing Toyota patents. Primarily, the issue was the actual control system that links the gas and electric motors and allows them to function in concert. Essentially, what makes a hybrid a hybrid.
Toyota spent a huge amount of money developing their hybrid system and had planned to license the technology from the beginning to any company who wanted it to help offset the cost. They also knew that their patents essentially guaranteed that anyone who wanted to build a hybrid and do it right would need to licenses at least some of the technology from them.
Nissan was the first customer and licenses virtually the entire system. Ford was the second and licenses only certain pieces, but primarily the control system. Ford pays royalties to Toyota for every hybrid they sell. Where you may be getting confused is that pursuant to the deal, the two companies also agreed to share technology regarding emissions control systems. In this case some Ford developed tech is used on Toyota vehicles.
This issue is why GM and several other companies went in a different direction as they wanted to develop their own tech that was not beholden to Toyota, first with the two-mode hybrid system and then in GM's case with the Volt platform. The Volt's system is significantly different than the Toyota one and GM holds all the patents. This is also the reason that Toyota will be struggling to develop a Volt like vehicle as GM holds all the rights to the best way to do it.
Of course, if you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe the NY Times:
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It also is the future and the PHEV version comes later this year too. 
It would be nice to see a consistent 75 mpg. That is what I'm shooting for in my next Diesel Scirocco conversion (should be completed for ~ $600 and 8 hr investment).
