Texas State BOE - Shrewd (not)- Religion as Science (Dallas: credit, school district)
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this article with the new proposal from Dr. Paredes is just another sign that he is really trying to dumb down the student population of TX
Plan would give no extra weight to pre-AP courses | Schools | Star-Telegram.com (broken link)
creating a UNIFORM policy of calculating the GPAs of students in TX
does not need to eliminate weighted grades for advanced course work...
the College Board system itself recognized the need for a ladder of courses leading to the final AP (and IB) classes in junior and senior year when the college-level tests are given...the College Board DOES recognize pre-AP and IB classes but it does not award college level work for them... http://www.collegeboard.com/events/a...onf/index.html
This link to the AP Vertical Teams Guide for English refers to the College Board view that AP English should not be an isolated course, but rather a planned program for teaching skills and concepts over several years. One objective is to develop a continuum of skill building from one grade level to the next. (Recommended for AP teachers and middle school teachers.) There are verticle team guides for most areas.
This link is an agenda for meeting with TEA where reps from the College Board system explained how they view/support/advocate vertical teams within curriculums to provide teaching system of increasingly difficult course work ending with the test levels...
http://www.tea.state.tx.us/sboe/minutes_all/2007/november/cofb_11_14_07.pdf (broken link)
Apparently Dr. Paredes was at that meeting and so he should be aware (which he was anyway) of the system College Board encourages for designing even middle and lower grade strands leading to the AP level...
and the additional comment by someone in the article that schools might create some new wave of course work outside College Board oversight that would give students a boost from taking them is just specious...
Most ISDs have a specific criteria of course work that follows College Board guidelines/standards--to deviate from that would be to risk having students fail more tests than they pass--which is definitely NOT the object of ISDs or students (or their parents)...the state's own curriculum guidelines pretty much prevents adding those types of classes...
What would be the point in creating some bogus course to give inflated grades to students--most colleges would see though that right away because of how they scrutinize transcripts....
Dr. Paredes is just bringing more of his California ingested educational theories and policies to TX--and California is not the place to go for reliable, cutting edge, HELPFUL ideas in education...the California system itself is pretty spastic in public schools despite lots of regulation from the state board...copying its example is only going to bring down TX gains...This idea will knock many students out of the AP and IB strands and most of them would be minority and lower socio-economic students---if there is no reward for the time/effort they would spend directly in GPAs that would help them achieve scholarships then they are going to be working to earn the money for college...
There is certainly a wide range of HOW ISDs rank regular and advanced classes--THAT is where the uniform standards need to be implimented--to create a uniform CURRICULA for what is an honors or advanced class in different subjects...
But the idea that a student IN an honors class which requires more work of higher quality would not receive the extra credit s/he has earned is just a slap in the face of students who have been there and done that...
It will stop students from entering the AP or IB stream at all--I just don't think students will spend their energy and time to get a regular weight A in a pre-AP English or any other area when they could half the work to get the same value A in a regular class...believe me
as someone who has taught regular sophomore and pre AP sophomore English there is a world of difference in the amount. complexity, and quality required of the two groups...
They would be taking the chance that students will take two years of much more difficult classes so that they could get the weighted reward in the last two...not a good bet IMO...
Just make all districts adhere to the same policy for earning weighted grades--that will create enough uniformity to make GPAs more equtable around the state than now certainly...taking away the possibility is like thowing out the baby with the dirty bathwater...
The hearing for this proposal will OF COURSE only be held in Austin--so most parents/students/teachers who are impacted by this decision won't have the opportunity to voice their opposition...
that lack will be seen as support for the proposal I am sure since the president of the board is stupid enough to belive that few objections at the meeting obviously mean total support for the idea...
Last edited by loves2read; 09-10-2008 at 08:58 AM..
I can't believe that more people are not upset at this change in grading policy---it is going to affect HUGH % of students in public schools--and it will impact their chances for college scholarships...
of course Dallas ISD's budget problems overshadowed this story...
Dr. Paredes was tasked with the job of coming up with a uniform GPA method by your elected officials of the Texas state legislature. They are the ones who enacted an ex post facto law and then didn't even have the guts to specify the method themselves.
These are the same bozos who are using legislative power to insist that EVERY SINGLE graduate of TX schools have 4 years of math and 4 years of science. Apparently, every kid in Texas will become a rocket scientist - we have no need for ditch diggers, or even artists, musicians, salesmen, housewives, restaurant managers, or any of thousands of other occupations that don't require in-depth technological knowledge.
Gee, the legislature has managed to hose both smart kids and dumb kids at the same time.
Back to the topic at hand:
Start with the fact that Paredes has to take what are currently a dozen or more methods of GPA calculation and select ONE as the true GPA method. So he's going to anger 90% of the people no matter what he does. One more time - this is a no-win task, and one he was forced to do by higher powers.
The position he is taking makes perfect logical sense. AP courses are pretty standardized across the country. Nebulous "honors" classes are not.
Re: "Extra Credit" for honors/AP. Some districts give nothing extra, some hand it out like candy - 6 points for an AP class, 5 for honors. What's fair or right? There is no single clear answer to that.
Will kids take harder classes with no GPA boost, just so they can take AP classes with a boost later? Some will, some won't. But those who don't - they aren't really 10%ers anyway, are they? It will still be very diffficult to get a top 10% GPA without AP classes in the mix.
Hell, back in the day, we received jack squat for advanced classes - I just took them so I didn't have to deal with idiots in my class.
See I'm one who thinks there should be no weighting of courses, and I say that as one who did honours and AP classes consistently. If a student is not capable of performing well enough in an honours or AP course to score as well, or better, in it that the average student can in a regular course, they should not take it. The benefit you get is a better education, if that isn't enough benefit to make the decision to take the class, then you shouldn't take it. When I was allowed to skip courses in College, and take more advanced courses they didn't weight my grades in the more advanced courses differently than they would have if I had taken less advanced courses. Children should be educated at the level that advances their education best. I would argue if you need the weighting in an AP or Hounours type course, you are in the wrong course.
We didn't get any extra credit 'back in my day' either. We took them because we had a very competitive group dating back to elementary school (they had to go back to third grade to break the tie for valedictorian). When many in our group went on to SMU we skipped the lower level classes sometimes and went right in for the higher level class - however maybe it was a mistake for me to take upper-level statistics and calculus without taking the prerequisites!
See I'm one who thinks there should be no weighting of courses, and I say that as one who did honours and AP classes consistently. If a student is not capable of performing well enough in an honours or AP course to score as well, or better, in it that the average student can in a regular course, they should not take it. The benefit you get is a better education, if that isn't enough benefit to make the decision to take the class, then you shouldn't take it. When I was allowed to skip courses in College, and take more advanced courses they didn't weight my grades in the more advanced courses differently than they would have if I had taken less advanced courses. Children should be educated at the level that advances their education best. I would argue if you need the weighting in an AP or Hounours type course, you are in the wrong course.
GPA is important when applying to college, though. Sure, a B doesn't sound bad, but that does away with the chance of having a 4.0. There are going to be a lot of students who don't want to take the chance of losing out on their first choice or some scholarships just to feel good about taking something labeled 'honors'.
Nerds aren't appreciated in HS, so pretty much the only motivation to do well is to get into a good college so you can make lots of money when you graduate. It's like giving two people the same salary at work, but ranking one of them against harder criteria. "Sorry, Bob, you only got a 'meets expectations' and Larry got an 'exceeds', so we'll give him the raise."
I think if you're performing at a higher level than peers, you should be rewarded.
Macbeth--is the best of all possible worlds that would be the exactly correct answer to this problem--but this is not the best of all possible worlds--it is not even close--we are talking Texas schools...
Big G---
first I agree that the legislature is a bunch of bozos for the most part...so any law they pass is going to be suspect for that very reason if nothing else...but Paredes is the one who is setting the standards that the other board members are pretty much rubber-stamping....there was controversy from the teaching community about the English standards they wanted to approve yes--but you saw who won...
Now with his idea to just cut out weighted grades for any class were there is not an AP or IB class--that is wrong, stupid, unfair, ill-considered, shortsighted--whatever you might choose-- for a couple of reasons
FIRST
Paredes makes no mention of the G/T classes--the Gifted and Talented strand--where students are tested for IQ/Creativity and can't get in just because they want to or based on their past grades--as most schools AP and IB strand allow...
this is a Federal program with oversight and has rules that ISDs must adhere to--it is sort of a "special ed" in reverse...
there are classes in jr hi and high school in English at least with students who receive weighted grades for their work--Technically according to his proposal--any student in those classes would not be eligible for weighted grades even in the junior or senior level class since the College Boards have no test equivalent (these students can take the AP tests but believe me their course work is definitely not teaching the same skills/techniques that an AP test requires)
BUT since he does not mention taking weighted grades AWAY from those 9-10 grade classes--he means to continue allowing weighted grades for any G/T strand that is out there....THAT is a travesty of inequality
Frankly most teachers will tell you that if there is a weakness in quality of honors classes it is between G/T classes requirements/standards and the pre-AP/ AP and pre-IB/IB classes...many times the G/T classes do much more "project" work in teams with oral presentations vs complex written papers and other assignments...
Not saying that all G/T classes are a walk--but in the bent to creativity there is more room for "artistic" and "creative" vs standardized/technical...
Fewer G/T classes in English include any grammar or research writing or essay answers that conform to the AP English tests...
So right away I see a conflict between what the G/T strands will be allowed and the two other honor stands--and ALL --or too few to worry about-- of those kids are in competition for the top 10% niche and college scholarships....so it gives an unfair advantage to the G/T kids if THEY are allowed to keep weighted grades below 11th grade level...
2nd--
In California apparently the CSU and UC schools decide which classes receive weighted grades and special classification in addition to any earned college credit from taking/passing AP classes--so there someone beside a STATE ED dept--but two college systems--that are arbiters for what is a worthy class/grade...
Schools in CA do give weighted grades to honors classes on 9th and 10th grade levels
I would like to see ANY public school district in Texas that does not give a weighted grade to HONOR or pre-AP or IB or G/T classes....the web page with the proof on the school/district site--not just hearsay...
I don't believe there is ANY ISD that does it--most schools do it in the junior highs as well where class separation into college strand and regular strand starts...so Paredes's stance will anger 90% of the educators/teachers/students because 100% of them expect to get/give weighted grades...what he can do is UNIFY the standards for giving weighted grades--and that does not mean cutting out grades 7-8-9-10 from offering weighted grades to students in honors classes...
don't know where you went to school (you say you were in in honors classes and back then maybe weighted grades weren't necessary)
3rd--the issue that schools/teachers can just create any ol class and call it an honors class--or that there is no coorelation between what happens in a 9th grade pre-AP English and in a 12th grade AP English--wrong--the AP system had designed a very structured plan for dealing with all the skills that a student needs to learn to score well and pass with a 4 or 5...and school teachers spend a lot of time (and money) learning that ladder and how to improve teaching methods each year...
while it is possible that a meteor could strike Earth and end all life--most people see it as a very unlikely possibility--same way that I see creating bogus honors classes...the state has oversight into what classes can give credit --remember how a class to study the Bible had to be approved before students could take it for credit...
all schools have written curriculum for each of their course strands--curriculum that is aligned with TASP elements but also sets out the course of a year's study fiarly specifically--tells what novels they read, what grammar concepts they enforce, what writing skills they teach...
some districts actually track a teacher's adherence to that by visiting --not the teacher's room once a year for evaluation--but the teacher's gradebook whenever the administrator wants--to see what is in there--to see that students ARE doing so many essays, so many novels...that there are grammar exercises listed and vocabulary .work..
frankly that is a little too Big Brother for me--but they are doing it...
NOW
whether or not all honors classes are taught/graded/weighted equally of course not...there is no way to guarantee that even if Dr. Paredes has his way and outlaws weighted grades for all levels under junior or senior that students in different classes or schools or districts will receive the same quality of teaching and their grades will reflect the same amount of knowledge and skill....
You might can bake hundreds of loaves of bread to taste basically the same---and probably reduce the quality of taste at the same time--but teaching is not like baking bread...
so making this change in an attempt to "certify" equality of quality is just specious...
and if he was a REAL teacher he would know that...
Last edited by loves2read; 09-11-2008 at 12:49 PM..
Thanks loves2read - I always am edified and enjoy your postings about education and your professional experiences and opinions.
If you think things are bad here, I went to the graduation of my niece at a supposedly good Southern California high school - there were 22 valedictorians in her class!
If he makes this change I think you are going to see some lawsuits over this ...
we are talking big money here in scholarships---especially if the G/T strand is allowed to have weighted grades in 9 and 10--and if Parede's reason is built all around what the College Board thinks is an "honors" class---I would love to know how he justifies NOT knocking ALL weighted grades down for G/T strand classes---
most of the people involved with that in a truly philosophical mind-meld think that standardized tests like the AP and SAT and ACT are manifestations of the anti-thesis of proving how educated a student it....they HATE those tests...
and how many of you realize that Dallas and other ISDs and students actually get MONEY for having passing scores...there are plenty of foundations in TX and other states and grant money available to pay students for making a passing grade--the schoold get money which helps defray the costs of paying for the tests which many of them do for their students...
if they can't count on a stream of students who master successive lower grades before they get to the 11 and 12 slots, they are going to have some doubts about this process...It really will become an ELITIST program...there are plenty of kids that will refuse to do that more difficult work if there is no immediate compensation in the form of higher GPA...
maybe THAT is what he hopes to accomplish---
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