Texas being excluded from the South (Houston, Abilene: attorney, furnished, residence)

[Dopo]

Originally Posted by Raider Scott

Seriously...why bicker and debate things as meaningless as these labels?

56 pages of people insisting that Texas is in the South
Next topic is going to be about whether or not North Dakota is in the North

[Hollytree]

Native Texans refer to their own state as being southwestern.

[Nuclear Bear]

Originally Posted by Nuclear Bear

This right here.

I don't have the time to respond to one of redlions novels.

People from Memphis do not look like people from Dallas......period.

On this same comparison.....Im in Oklahoma City right now for business.

People from Tulsa and OKC DO look like people from Dallas and North Texas. There is not a huge difference in the way the people talk or look from their counterparts in Texas.

I will also state that people in Oklahoma do not sound like people from East Texas. Oklahoma is almost a big extension of West Texas.

[Dopo]

Dallas being part of Texas is debatable

[preston39]

Originally Posted by Hollytree

Native Texans refer to their own state as being southwestern.

Do we, though?

Also, people from Dallas and people from Memphis seem culturally different, but not that different.

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by preston39

Do we, though?

Also, people from Dallas and people from Memphis seem culturally different, but not that different.

But you ask these weirdos on the city data Texas forum, and they’re as different as China and Kentucky.

[ParaguaneroSwag]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

The elephant in the room is who is most likely to consider themselves southern:

1) African Americans
2) Older White People from East Texas

Those demographics cling to the title of "Southern" much harder than other groups. There are cultural reasons for that Im sure, but since Im not in those groups I won't comment.

Im happy for Texas just to be Texas. I don't care about the title, but Im also from California. People there don't cling to titles like they do here.

The real elephant in the room is the reason for this. You’re certainly right that different demographics see these things different ways. Now let’s talk about why. There’s a couple of reason is simple which is that the south is ridiculed with the #1 reason overall stems from the civil war and Jim Crow era.

1. White people. You say old white people from East Texas. I don’t agree. White people throughout a good portion of the state claim the south. Some towns prouder than others. Generally, it is skewed older. But the reason some white people don’t like to be labeled as southern is because of “white guilt”. Of course, no matter where in the country you are, white people are still seen as the evil side of the civil war and slavery. The only difference is in the south, those days lasted longer and civil rights were held longer. The older the people are, the less it is “embarrassing” to be racist. For the rest, please find any excuse to say Texas is free from those “other evil confederate states”.

2. African Americans don’t have white guilt. If anything, they’re proud to be survivors of the south and their close ancestors lived through it all.

3. Hispanics, Asians and immigrants aren’t necessarily on either side of history here so there isn’t a major cloud of guilt or pride stemming over the head in either way. But if you were to ask them “do you live in the south”, the general answer would be “yes” (as are all demographics including white people). The difference is it’s not as passionate of an issue.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

And there was great disagreement over that. (One of my ancestors was a delegate to the the Secession Convention.) Sam Houston's objection to it ended his political career.



However, Texas is still NOT the South, but Texas. Childhood romantic dreams notwithstanding.

Just out of curiosity,THL, what was your ancesor's name and do you know which way he voted on the secession question?

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

And there was great disagreement over that. (One of my ancestors was a delegate to the the Secession Convention.) Sam Houston's objection to it ended his political career.



However, Texas is still NOT the South, but Texas. Childhood romantic dreams notwithstanding.

Just out of curiosity THL, what was this ancestor's name and how did he vote on the secession question. Doyouknow?

Houston didn't object to the secession convention, he simply objected to Texas' actually seceding. What ended his political career was his refusal to swear an Oath of Alligiance to the Conferate Constitution. One ofthe reasons he refused to do so was because he had sworn an oath to the U.S. Constitution when Texas was annexed into the United States and that it would be dishonorable of him to now swear another to another nation, although he did later write that after Texas seceded he henseforth considered himself "a conservative citizen of the Southern Confederacy" On the day Texas' elected officials were scheduled to take theConfederate oath, Houston remained silent and seated as his name was called out three times. When he failed to respond,the Speaker of the House declared the Office of Governor vacant and he was effectively deposed from office.He then returned home and retired from any further political life.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Only if you are arrogant enough to ignore all of the other influences that have as much or even more influence on what goes into making Texas, Texas. Not South, not Southwestern, not really anything but Texas.



Said as a native Texan with roots back to pre-Republic and ancestors who came here, some from, some through, the South, and some from up North and who has lived in Texas about three and a half times as long as you have.

You and I have beaten this horse to death countless times before, THL, and arrogance has nothing to do with it. All one has to do is crunch the numbers to see that the Southern influence is clearly the dominant one. Tennessee easily furnished the largest number of new settlers to Texas, with Alabama not far behind. Mississippi, Georgia, and Loisiana--I believe they were-- came next in percentages. TheseSouthern pioneers easily outnumbered any mexican and/or Spanish born residents in Coonial Texas even before statehood. They naturally brought with them thier southeastern history, heritage, values, and culture, so it would only stand to reason that these Southerners would play the dominient and central role in shaping and developing the state. It is not denigrating oyher cultures to point this out, it is merely stating a numerically-based fact; BTW--the settler numbers come from 1850 and 1870 census records and can be verified that way if you want to research them yourself. Terry Jordan's Geography of Texas contains all this --and much more-- good information on Texas' early cultura ldevelopment and dominating influences.