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Its definitely a danger for Brooklyn. I was just pointing out that the best way to get an urban population is to begin with people who actually like gritty urbanity, get a place's reputation going, and let development follow. It does follow once the word gets out. I'm personally of an opposite mind to you, I prefer grittiness and I actually like Philly a lot more than NYC for that reason. Still, once you have a population set up an urban foothold, it needs to be followed by development catering to those who prefer newer options such as yourself in order to appeal to a broader audience who wants to plug into the creative classes without necessarily having to join in. Its all part of a healthy urban mix.
Its definitely a danger for Brooklyn. I was just pointing out that the best way to get an urban population is to begin with people who actually like gritty urbanity, get a place's reputation going, and let development follow. It does follow once the word gets out. I'm personally of an opposite mind to you, I prefer grittiness and I actually like Philly a lot more than NYC for that reason. Still, once you have a population set up an urban foothold, it needs to be followed by development catering to those who prefer newer options such as yourself in order to appeal to a broader audience who wants to plug into the creative classes without necessarily having to join in. Its all part of a healthy urban mix.
I completely agree. As I had mentioned earlier in an ideal world with a robust funding stream in place and a strong marketing budget, the Near West Side Initiative coupled with the Connective Corridor could leverage Syracuse's urban assets around the central theme of sustainability. Syracuse needs urban pioneers and should cultivate an atmosphere that embraces the creative class. I'm less than optimistic, however we all can dream.
I'm less than optimistic as well unfortunately. Its too bad, the fragmentation of city from the 70s and 80s means that its wide open to reinvention. Its funny you mentioned marketing, that may be the key. Most of the people with a poor impression of syracuse have never been there; take a outsider to Dino and armory, and after one night you've turned them into people who at the very least no longer think its a crap city. A marketing campaign for both residents and outsiders could do wonders for very little $$ compared to building new development.
My husband was telling me last night, how he and a customer were commiserating on how much they hated Syracuse.
<Stop> You do?
"Well yeah, babe- doesn't everyone except for you?"
What exactly, dear, do you HATE about it?
"Um, well..."
Precisely. I went off on him, poor guy. He's not from here (grew up in Vermont/New Hampshire) and already has been sucked into the Syracuse mindset from his co-workers. I don't know what the heck they talk about but I wish I could be there to challenge them. These family men live in the 'burbs and have something to complain about? They're all just negative peer pressure and I'm sick of listening to it. Their reasons for hating Syracuse are cold weather (it wasn't cold in Vermont?), snow (again, Vermont... even though we have twice their snowfall, their snow doesn't melt like ours does so it actually looks like a LOT more), and that there's nothing to do. Well, men- if you'd bundle up and find an activity besides playing video games, you could have your pick of things to do. This is in addition to all the adult indoor sports' leagues that are all over central NY in the winter.
I told my husband that even if customers start an anti-Syracuse tirade and he jumps in, they're never going to be able to refer business to him. The moment some successful Syracuse businessman hears their experience, they'll not *choose* to buy from The Syracuse Hater. It's not good business and heck- it's just not nice. He LOVES it here in all but his words. NEVER, unless someone else brings it up or it's -5 degrees out in the dead of winter, does he either say or imply that he doesn't LOVE to live here. In no other part of the country would we be as happy as we are here.
My husband was telling me last night, how he and a customer were commiserating on how much they hated Syracuse.
<Stop> You do?
"Well yeah, babe- doesn't everyone except for you?"
What exactly, dear, do you HATE about it?
"Um, well..."
Precisely. I went off on him, poor guy. He's not from here (grew up in Vermont/New Hampshire) and already has been sucked into the Syracuse mindset from his co-workers. I don't know what the heck they talk about but I wish I could be there to challenge them. These family men live in the 'burbs and have something to complain about? They're all just negative peer pressure and I'm sick of listening to it. Their reasons for hating Syracuse are cold weather (it wasn't cold in Vermont?), snow (again, Vermont... even though we have twice their snowfall, their snow doesn't melt like ours does so it actually looks like a LOT more), and that there's nothing to do. Well, men- if you'd bundle up and find an activity besides playing video games, you could have your pick of things to do. This is in addition to all the adult indoor sports' leagues that are all over central NY in the winter.
I told my husband that even if customers start an anti-Syracuse tirade and he jumps in, they're never going to be able to refer business to him. The moment some successful Syracuse businessman hears their experience, they'll not *choose* to buy from The Syracuse Hater. It's not good business and heck- it's just not nice. He LOVES it here in all but his words. NEVER, unless someone else brings it up or it's -5 degrees out in the dead of winter, does he either say or imply that he doesn't LOVE to live here. In no other part of the country would we be as happy as we are here.
</rant over> lol
As someone who was once more positive about Syracuse, I too got sucked into this mentality by my co-workers and extended family when I lived in CNY. Even the most optimistic person eventually feels the peer pressure. I don't like the NYC area, however one of the things that impresses me about the people down here is their stubborn pride for all things NY. Unfortunately many take this to the extreme and have this mentality that NYC is the center of the universe and everywhere else is inferior. Even a healthy dose of civic pride, could help improve Syracuse. I was on the train in White Plains on my way into Grand Central a few months ago, and overheard someone mention "Syracuse" in a somewhat negative tone. I ended up putting my headphones on as I didn't want to hear it. Counterbalancing the negative impressions of Syracuse begins at home with the natives. I have never seen a bunch of people so rife with hatred towards their community. The fact that so few defend it makes it even more disturbing.
I agree that marketing is a huge aspect that needs to be explored more. That's why I try to do it on this medium, because people would be surprised about who stumbles across this board and reads the information that is put on here. That's why people should not underestimate the power they can have on the internet or any other medium they have access to.
Pure marketing will not change the locals opinion of the area. There are only a few ways to change how natives think about the Syracuse area.
1. They must live somewhere else outside of Upstate NY for at least two years.
or
2. The local media...TV, radio, and newspaper...should be filled with beautiful images of the area, the people giving us the news should look and act sophisticated and professional (which basically means firing at least 80% of the local media)
Want an example? Tracy Davidson
When she was in Syracuse:
the local media should also cut down on human interest stories and start covering more development/hometown pride news.
3. An all out beautification plan that basically is a total and complete makeover of the entire county. This includes: All new curbing, new landscaping, new facades on run down or ugly buildings, pave all roads and parking lots, overgrown brush is cut down and maintained, decorative fencing hides all eyesores that can't be cleaned up. The beautification plan also gives incentives to all homeowners who give their front yard a makeover and better curb appeal with new landscaping etc.
So basically, if the Syracuse area focused on beauty, class, style and knowledge of the outside world...natives would begin to appreciate what the Syracuse area has to offer IMO.
I agree that marketing is a huge aspect that needs to be explored more. That's why I try to do it on this medium, because people would be surprised about who stumbles across this board and reads the information that is put on here. That's why people should not underestimate the power they can have on the internet or any other medium they have access to.
I couldn't have said it better myself. The increasingly negative tone of some these posts (mine included) regarding Syracuse worries me as potential residents me be scared away after reading them. For the record, I think Syracuse and Central New York is a great area brimming with potential. For the most part the people are friendly, genuine and hardworking. While the economy is stagnant to slightly declining, it is more diversified than during the past recessions. What has always frustrated me about CNY is the myopic leadership at the city and county levels in addition to local economic development organizations such as the MDA and Chamber of Commerce. From the decision to locate the minor league baseball stadium in a far flung northwest side location to not embracing new urbanism proposals set forth by Andres Duany, local officials have a poor track record in executing development deals that are not embroiled in politics and a penchant for soliciting feedback from nationally recognized leaders. The recommendations in these studies which are almost entirely funded by taxpayer dollars are almost never implemented and placed on a dusty shelf in the Civic Center to join the countless others that preceded them. This in itself should not preclude someone from relocating to Greater Syracuse. Many cities along the rustbelt including Cleveland, Detroit, Buffalo, and even Providence have a notorious history with politics. From an outsider’s perspective, it seems that there is more collaboration in the past several years than at anytime during the late 1990s and the earlier part of this decade.
While I can’t speak for any of the regular posters on the Syracuse forum, my perception is that many of us want Syracuse to revitalize itself and attract new residents and industry. Some of the venting that occurs on this forum (of which I contribute more than my share) is based on our high standards for the area. We know Syracuse can and should do better on marketing the community to outsiders, political representation, local news media, imposing design guidelines on development projects, economic development strategies, and better urban planning. What some may perceive as engaging in a positive discourse can be seen by others as a “pissing match” or degrading Syracuse. Speaking of me personally, this forum is one of the few places that I can share my constructive thoughts on the area since I no longer live in CNY and many friends and extended family lack the passion and interest in Syracuse, even though they live there. This forum allows people that share a common interest, in this case being Syracuse to engage in a dialogue which in some cases can detract from our general message that CNY is a great community to live, work, and play.
From the decision to locate the minor league baseball stadium in a far flung northwest side location to not embracing new urbanism proposals set forth by Andres Duany, local officials have a poor track record in executing development deals that are not embroiled in politics and a penchant for soliciting feedback from nationally recognized leaders. The recommendations in these studies which are almost entirely funded by taxpayer dollars are almost never implemented and placed on a dusty shelf in the Civic Center to join the countless others that preceded them.
Just to clarify: I didn't mean to infer that soliciting feedback from nationally recognized experts was a bad thing. It's crucial that experts from outside the community are allowed to provide feedback. The next sentence better captures my viewpoint that numerous studies including those completed by Duany, Richard Florida, , Ford Foundation, CitiStates, AIA et al are disregarded by local leaders after the initial media buzz. Many of these consultants are brought in by the MDA and county to give the appearance that they are "doing something" to address many structural and systemic problems like the economy and brain drain, however virtually none of these recommendations are implemented.
Last edited by RollsRoyce; 03-24-2009 at 12:43 PM..
I couldn't have said it better myself. The increasingly negative tone of some these posts (mine included) regarding Syracuse worries me as potential residents me be scared away after reading them. For the record, I think Syracuse and Central New York is a great area brimming with potential. For the most part the people are friendly, genuine and hardworking. While the economy is stagnant to slightly declining, it is more diversified than during the past recessions. What has always frustrated me about CNY is the myopic leadership at the city and county levels in addition to local economic development organizations such as the MDA and Chamber of Commerce. From the decision to locate the minor league baseball stadium in a far flung northwest side location to not embracing new urbanism proposals set forth by Andres Duany, local officials have a poor track record in executing development deals that are not embroiled in politics and a penchant for soliciting feedback from nationally recognized leaders. The recommendations in these studies which are almost entirely funded by taxpayer dollars are almost never implemented and placed on a dusty shelf in the Civic Center to join the countless others that preceded them. This in itself should not preclude someone from relocating to Greater Syracuse. Many cities along the rustbelt including Cleveland, Detroit, Buffalo, and even Providence have a notorious history with politics. From an outsider’s perspective, it seems that there is more collaboration in the past several years than at anytime during the late 1990s and the earlier part of this decade.
While I can’t speak for any of the regular posters on the Syracuse forum, my perception is that many of us want Syracuse to revitalize itself and attract new residents and industry. Some of the venting that occurs on this forum (of which I contribute more than my share) is based on our high standards for the area. We know Syracuse can and should do better on marketing the community to outsiders, political representation, local news media, imposing design guidelines on development projects, economic development strategies, and better urban planning. What some may perceive as engaging in a positive discourse can be seen by others as a “pissing match” or degrading Syracuse. Speaking of me personally, this forum is one of the few places that I can share my constructive thoughts on the area since I no longer live in CNY and many friends and extended family lack the passion and interest in Syracuse, even though they live there. This forum allows people that share a common interest, in this case being Syracuse to engage in a dialogue which in some cases can detract from our general message that CNY is a great community to live, work, and play.
Great post! I think that even those positive about the area can come to grips about the changes that could or should be made for the area to be better. Some things like weather are out of anyone's control, but that doesn't mena that the people of this area can't use that as a positive aspect to attract people either. Again, people would be surprised as to what people like in terms of weather and how they utilized that aspect of an area.
I do think that the area needs more innovative and creative ideas for growth and/or improvement. I agree that the leadership seems to be a bit too status quo and complacent, as long as they have a position. Dare I say, we almost have a Tammany Hall type of atmosphere in the area, if you look at who tends to be in political positions in the area. So, maybe there needs to be more involvement from people of more communities in the area as well.
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Agreed
) 
