Vitamin D3 AND Vitamin K2 (MK-7) together? (doctor, sleep, cancer)

[movintime]

Are they synergistic & needed, or can you take only the Vitamin D & skip the K2? I'm lost on this, & prior to ordering K2 I'd like to know. It is more pricey than D3 & so is it needed? Thanks.

[stepka]

Yes you do need them both and they are synergistic, but to help you decide, do you eat a lot of dark green leafies? If so, you can probably skip the K.

[movintime]

Yes, a good amount of leafy greens. But that is Vitamin K1 (like in Kelp or Seaweed, I believe, which is a clotting factor & increases chances overdose on K1 or forming a clot) not K2, as I understand. Thus, I thought only foods like Natto (the Japanese food fermented, I think) or a few foods have adequate K2. But I'm still unsure as to whether to supplement or just try to eat enough normal everyday-type foods w/ K2? Ok, thanks for your reply.

[AnonChick]

Your data source seems to be flawed. A serving of natto has more K2 than anyone needs - it isn't merely "adequate." It's not something you could OD on, but it's also not one of those "must have" foods. If it were, the entire known world, *except* for the Japanese, would be deficient in K2. Since most of the world is not deficient enough to need supplementation, it stands to reason that natto is not a necessary part of anyone's diet.

K2 is in some meats, and your body creates its own in small amounts. Basically if you eat foods containing bacteria, you're getting K2. Not yeast though - specifically bacteria, since that's where K2 is created. Meats, chicken, eggs, heck if you touch the rice and beans after touching the kitchen counter right after preparing your food, chances are you're getting some K2 right there.

[movintime]

Ok, thanks for the info & yes, I'd rather eat real foods not take pricey pills. So, I eat rice & beans almost daily too & so most likely get it that way. I eat Tempeh once per wk, & avoid high sodium foods fermented like sauerkraut. But I do drink beer & wine, does that count?

Haha, also alot of times my apple or piece of fruit is getting brown in fridge but I still eat it all. I assume this is bacteria too, though unsure if it is more unhealthy than healthy bacteria? I eat daily yogurt & recently began non-fat, plain Bulgarian glass jar yogurt not just plain, non-fat, 'plastic yogurt tub' yogurt from Walmart as in past.

But I avoid poultry, red meat, cheese & eggs so not sure this is sage advice to myself, is it? They have so many pros/cons that I figure, "when in doubt throw it out" of my diet. Any worry there too?

Ok, again thanks for your help.

[AnonChick]

So you're a vegetarian. Not sure why you avoid cheese, if you eat yogurt. They're both dairy, and there are plenty of cheeses made without meat-based rennet.

Personally, I don't know anyone who's ever been diagnosed with a K2 deficiency, or who has had K2 supplementation recommended to them by any doctor, of any kind, for any reason. I think honestly - if you think you are personally deficient or have reason to be concerned, ask your physician to have you tested. The only supplements I think are even somewhat useful for someone who has no indication of deficiency or are at risk for disease, would be a multivitamin if you don't eat healthy meals on a daily basis. If you eat healthy, are physically fit, have good teeth and skin, and not an "at-risk" person (like, a family history of lung cancer, or a genetic disorder that can manifest, but hasn't yet) and have no known diagnosed deficiencies - then there's no reason to supplement anything at all.

[movintime]

I avoid cheese due to high fat since fat-free cheese isn't real nor healthy.

Well, I'm a fish eater (salmon, farmed trout, sardines, etc.) 2-3/wk. I had a mom die of colon cancer age 61. Dad has Type 2 & high BP, along now, at 78 yrs old, w/ a pacemaker put in recently & COPD & CHF (& he was smoker from teens til age 65 but 13 yrs ago he quit). He's anemic (has been all his life), I'm over 50 & his only son, thus I too have low iron stores as per past few yrs bldwk. PC doc says take iron pills or eat red meat or chicken/beef liver. I don't really want to eat them, so that is another thing missing to help iron stores. My cardio doc monitors me close & of late seems, "I begun snoring a bit too often" (dad snored/snores til this day all of his 78 yrs so far) as my g/f says, so I'll see him next wk to eval that issue. Maybe it is not apnea but I've no way to know til a sleep test is done which hopefully he does.

These factors add up to why, "I watchout for family genetics", as one doc told me is most likely reason you'll get something a high % of the time. Ok, again hope that clarifies a bit & thank you for the effort to give me advice. As far as K2 goes, I've heard if you just take Vitamin D3 in winter (or anytime) it can affect calcium deposition in body & lead to potential calcification of the heart/or arteries, etc. But I'm not clear on the exact way that occurs, so I'll ask my cardio next wk about it.

[AnonChick]

I had to see a nutritionist many years ago to help reduce symptoms of cyto meglo virus until it worked itself out of my body. He told me a few things to remember, and of course I only remembered a couple:

A & Zinc should always be taken together
B & C should always be taken together
Calcium & D should always be taken together.

He never told me that certain things should be taken at different times - only that if you're taking those particular vitamins, they should definitely be paired up with their companions. A multi would cover all of it as long as the multi contained calcium.

My multi has D, but doesn't have much calcium. So I supplement with a single TUMS now that I'm of an age where I have to worry about arthritis, since I'm at risk. In the winter, I don't see the sun more than a half hour a week, if I'm lucky. And so I started supplementing with D recently to restore my levels to normal. Since I'm already taking calcium, I don't feel the need to add *more* than I'm already taking.

But yes - if you're taking D, you should also be taking calcium. Or you can get a single tab that contains both; usually it's labeled as Calcium (plus D3) but it's a huge horse pill. Calcium pills tend to be enormous. That's why I get the TUMs, heh. I can't swallow big pills.

[Miss Hepburn]

I guess someone has missed the news reports to stop taking calcium supplements.
Can be looked up.

Added....and farmed fish of any kind from anywhere!
I was Vit K deficient in 1979...had been a ridiculously strict vegetarian for 13
years by that time.....Bruised very easily, btw.

Sorry, but true, read it and weep, as they say...about farmed fish and calcium sups.

[AnonChick]

Postmenopausal women might benefit from ceasing the calcium supplements, if they've been taking them. I'm not postmenopausal, I'm menopausal - smack dab in the middle of the process. I'm also "at risk" for osteoarthritis and osteoporosis, and rather than take one of those nasty calcium uptake things that definitely DO come with serious potential side effects, I've chosen the less-risky, and easier to digest TUMs extra-strength, at one per day.

I *could* just drink more milk, but I don't like milk and don't drink it at all. I *could* eat more cheese, but I already eat more than I probably should and it's not only fattening, it's gassy.

Also, the studies showed that there *might* be an increase in *risk.* If you're at low risk for heart disease in the first place, the increase might not be significant enough to warrant avoiding taking calcium if you are at risk for bone diseases. That's something you have to discuss with your physician.

I discussed it with mine, and she wants me to take calcium. And so - I take a TUMs.

In addition, you shouldn't take vitamin D without also taking calcium. Supplemented D doesn't absorb properly without it. Your body absorbs it naturally through exposure to the sun, but if you have to supplement, you need calcium in order for the supplement to do what it's supposed to do.