Moving to St. Louis from Chicago. (Manchester, Washington: apartments, rental, loft)

[mjtinmemphis]

Hello St. Louis,

I'm so excited that I'm able to be relocated back to my hometown. I've been lurking on St. Louis forum for a while and I do have specific questions since it's been so long since living there. As with any other place, I know the city had changed.

I'm going to be renting for the first 2 years while getting re acquainted with the city. I'm looking to rent a one bedroom for around 1k per month within the downtown area or central west end. The trick is I prefer newer construction with washer dryer hookups with good amenities. If there are other recommendations as far as neighborhoods let me know. I'm early 40s gay black male professional who loves organic grocery shopping and walkable neighborhoods. I currently live in Hyde Park and looking for the same diversity level. Realize I may have to take a social hit. I don't know what the gay scene is like but I hope it's cool and laid back and diverse. I hate the Boystown scene btw for those who are familiar.

How is the commute to the Lindbergh 270 area on 55 around 10 am from downtown? (I'm moving from Chicago so my definition of bad traffic is probably different than yours).

Please let me know your own personal experiences especially for the boomerang St. Louisians who moved away and moved back after a long time.

[stlcitygirl]

Welcome back! Sounds like the CWE or Downtown is right up your alley. I'm not familiar with Hyde Park, but you may also want to look at Forest Park South East. It's on the "up and coming" side but within the neighborhood is The Grove, which has several gay bars. You many not have luck finding all new construction, but you should be able to find an old building that has been gutted and rehabbed, so almost like new! Tower Grove South/Heights is another good option, walkable with several restaurants, bars, etc.

As for the commute, I would say your looking at 25-35 minutes, against traffic, shouldn't be too bad

[STLCityMike]

I am not familiar with Hyde Park - but I looked on Google maps to get an idea. The area seems to be between the lake and Washington Park, with nice tree lined streets of brick homes. The area is also home to the University of Chicago. If there are more distinguishing features that you liked about the area, let me know.

Here is my personal opinion. I would look at the Grove. It is home to the 'gay strip' in St. Louis. It is much newer (in terms of the renovation cycle) than Boystown in Chicago. In fact, most of the recent development has been in the past 5 years or so. The LGBT center opened here recently. The housing stock is older, brick, and many are in the process of renovation. Front Door St. Louis has a lot of rental properties in the area. Businesses are mostly bars, with some restaurants, and very few shops at this point. It is easily assessable to I-64 (Hwy 40), and both Vandeventer and Kingshighway have access to I-44. Your commute to I-270 and 55 would be about 15-20 minutes (using 44 to connect to 55).

Aside from the Grove, I would look at Grand Center - not too far from either the West End or the Grove. Grand Center has really seen a lot of renaissance in recent years. It is home to Hamburger Mary's, and then many other wonderful eating establishments. It is home to St. Louis University and Harris Stowe State University - as well as many wonderful theaters including the Fabulous Fox! The commute would be about the same, catching I-44 from Grand.

The Grove and Grand Center are both 'up and coming' areas than the West End. There are still some rough elements to be found in each (more so in the Grove I think). The West End has excellent proximity to Forest Park, and is home to Barnes Jewish and the Washington University School of Medicine. It also has excellent transportation with I-64 (Hwy 40) as well as the Metro Link stations.

One final two areas to check out are Soulard and Grand South Grand. Soulard is home to a more mature gay population, and two neighborhood hot spots (Clementines and the Bastille). Soulard is an entertainment district, with a lot of bars and home to Mardi Gras! It lacks metro access, but is very well connected with I-44 and I-55 passing through. It's neighboring areas of Benton Park and Lafayette Square are also very charming. I describe these areas more as dense small towns in the middle of the city - mainly due to the lower level building, especially when compared to the West End. Grand South Grand was home to Pride until it's move to downtown this year. It is very close the the Grove, and very ethnically diverse. Soulard and it's neighboring areas may shave 5 minutes off your commute, as these have easy access to I-55.

Finally, make sure you check your place out thoroughly before you decide. Each of the wonderful neighborhoods have elements within our nearby that you may want to avoid.

I moved here in 2001, and am an openly gay 40something. Hope this helps ... and If I can assist in any other way, please feel free to PM me! Good luck in the Lou!!

[Dawn10am]

I don't think there's one neighborhood that meets all of your criteria--that is (a) very walkable, (b) diverse, (c) newer construction, and (d) gay friendly.

I'd say you should probably go with downtown if you want newer construction with all the bells and whistles. Very few of the buildings are "new" (as is the case in most of St. Louis), but downtown has a particularly high number of loft rehabs with more modern finishes, especially compared to the CWE. The stock there tends to be much more vintage. Downtown is also very walkable, with lots of shops/bars/restaurants on Washington, an urban-form Schnuck's by the Old Post Office, handy Metro stations, and it's only a quick bike ride or drive down to the Soulard farmer's market.

South Grand would be the most diverse option, since it's a nice mix of white, black, and international. It's also very walkable, but it lacks the Metro access you have downtown or the CWE.

The Grove is definitely a nice up and coming area and is the city's burgeoning gayborhood, although it's less happening and walkable than downtown, CWE, or South Grand. There are also a lot of new rehabs there, but they tend to be more 2-family and 4-family flats than large apartment buildings. I think the Grove would probably give you a higher diversity level than downtown and the CWE, but not as much as South Grand.

South Grand and the Grove are probably the most gay-friendly, but downtown and the CWE are by no means unfriendly. However, the CWE is about to get a Whole Foods, so you might want to think about that for organic grocery shopping as well.

[zach_33]

Seems like reasonable advice so far.

I'm not a boomerang, but I moved down here from Chicago over 10 years ago. Hyde Park is just such a unique place; It's the neighborhood of choice for most U Chicago students and (perhaps for that reason) also the most intellectual community I know of there. Lots of bookstores, quiet tree lined streets with multi-units and stately row homes, art fairs, quirky bars and restaurants, dorky undergrads .

Based on your lifestyle wish list, I think I am going with the obvious answer... the Central West End. Your commute to South Lindberg and I-55, oi, that's more painful than most commutes here, but still only 30 minutes off-peak. (side note: I really wish the city would build connecting ramps for eastbound I-64 onto any of the other downtown highways-- 55, 70, 44-- as it is, you have to exit and get back on for any of them in any direction. very inconvenient).

As an easier commute alternative, you should keep south city enclaves like Soulard and Lafayette Square on your radar. Happy hunting.

[mjtinmemphis]

Lots of helpful advise.

I loved the areas that you've all mentioned except the grove. I've heard it but don't know exactly where it is.

They have apartments in midtown? I've got to check it out.

[NewStLouisan]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

I loved the areas that you've all mentioned except the grove. I've heard it but don't know exactly where it is.

"The Grove" is the new branding for Forest Park Southeast. Essentially, it's the entertainment/dining strip along Manchester Blvd. The area is just south of Wash U's medical campus, and north of Tower Grove park.

[mjtinmemphis]

I've narrowed my selection down to Soulard, Lafayette Square, Downtown and possibly the area around Tower Grove. CWE, The Grove and Midtown would be less convenient.

I don't have a long time to shop the city when visiting in August. How are the amenities in the mentioned neighborhoods such as farmers markets and grocery stores and things?

[zach_33]

Nice, full variety grocery stores are a trouble spot for central St. Louis. Downtown has a small upscale Schnucks, it is maybe half the size of a suburban grocery, and a little pricier, but you could get everything you need there. There is a Shop and Save on Gravois just west of Grand that would serve as a nearby option in Tower Grove, but that immediate area has a history of violence that puts me on guard-- the Schnucks just west of Tower Grove park is little bit nicer.

Soulard and Laf Sq don't really have close by grocery shopping, but they do have nice specialty shops and famous, historical Soulard farmer's market.

Downtown clearly has the most amenities centered along Wash Ave between Broadway and 18th. But Grand south Grand ain't too shabby either. Lafayette Square has a smaller commercial district on Lafayette between Tucker and Mississippi but it is more limited to a few bars and rastaurants and specialty shops. But the square itself makes me wish I could own a Victorian overlooking it - a very classy feel to that hood. Soulard is probably the least amenitied of the three imo and that is because the bars and restaurants dot all the corners, instead of being concentrated in one area.

I'd probably go with Tower Grove just because it has the best balance of amenities (retail and entertainment) and green space (TG Park is beautiful), or possibly Laf Sq for the same reason, and LS seems a little more tranquil and high end. Downtown is great for nightlife, but I need green space personally, even if it is only a small park, and the ones down there are occupied by homeless and often reek of urine (at least that's been the case when I go jogging downtown). It's a tough decision and you'd be good with any of the 4, but I would go TG or maybe LS.

[Dawn10am]

And don't forget that Tower Grove also has a farmer's market in the park on Saturdays, although I doubt that it could compare with the awesomeness of the Soulard farmer's market. I really think Downtown offers the most amenities and is the most walkable of all of them (and it's also super close to the Soulard market), but you just have to decide whether you want a Downtown lifestyle or a more traditional neighborhood lifestyle.