3rd world Saint Louis! (Kansas City, St. Louis: low income, new home, safe area)

[Dawn10am]

You guys...this thread is so old. The OP is long gone. And DUH! No city in the US is anywhere close to third world. That's a ludicrous assertion.

[runnerXT]

Originally Posted by Old Trafford

Lived in the UK for several years myself... you obviously never went to Hackney or Brixton in London, rough, run down and very dangerous. And if you ever made it up to Liverpool you would have seen large scale abandonment.

So you either never went, or you only see what you want to see.

You also have to keep in mind that our free market driven real esatate and construction industry was happy to see people flee historic areas from the 40's to today because they made a ton of money on it. There was no incentive to go and renovate old buildings, and cultural market pressures along taxpayer subsudized sprawl doomed historic older cities like St. Louis.

We have a lot of work to do on the north side, but there are also large tracts of the north side that are intact.

So StlToday shuts down its anonymous posting about the same time you show up, coincidence?

Just can't let this go:

Population of London is 8.2 million
Population of St. Louis is 320,000

London has about 120-130 murders annually
St. Louis has about 115-120 murders annually

but London is almost 26 times the size of St. Louis thus St. Louis has a murder rate not double or triple but 26 times higher.

No where in the developed world is there crime and decay equel to American cities. I guess you can find a block or two but most certainly not whole chunks of cities.

All American cities, Chicago and on, are extremely violant and have run down areas that are almost equel to the Third World. Yes I agree it is somehwere imbetween the first world and third world and not the third world. But too bad we as Americans have to look to the worst the world has to offer and go 'see we aren't that bad'

[STLCityMike]

As london grew - it absorbed neighboring cities creating additonal buroughs. There are 32 buroughs in London today. The original city of London (per Wiki pedia) was about one square mile and today has ~7,000 residents. If they had NEVER increased there borders that would be quite high crime statisitcs! St. Louis was eliminated the possibility of increasing our borders when we separated from the county. You can NOT compare a city population and it's crime in our case.

Look crime is up in our country. I don't dispute that. But instead of arguing skewed statistics why don't we discuss options for resolution?

[Caesarstl]

Originally Posted by runnerXT

Just can't let this go:

Population of London is 8.2 million
Population of St. Louis is 320,000

London has about 120-130 murders annually
St. Louis has about 115-120 murders annually

but London is almost 26 times the size of St. Louis thus St. Louis has a murder rate not double or triple but 26 times higher.

No where in the developed world is there crime and decay equel to American cities. I guess you can find a block or two but most certainly not whole chunks of cities.

All American cities, Chicago and on, are extremely violant and have run down areas that are almost equel to the Third World. Yes I agree it is somehwere imbetween the first world and third world and not the third world. But too bad we as Americans have to look to the worst the world has to offer and go 'see we aren't that bad'

While I don't disagree with the overall message of your post, you need to gain a better understanding of how to apply statistics... Seriously, your comparison here is laughably ignorant... +1 to STLCityMike also.

[runnerXT]

Originally Posted by STLCityMike

As london grew - it absorbed neighboring cities creating additonal buroughs. There are 32 buroughs in London today. The original city of London (per Wiki pedia) was about one square mile and today has ~7,000 residents. If they had NEVER increased there borders that would be quite high crime statisitcs! St. Louis was eliminated the possibility of increasing our borders when we separated from the county. You can NOT compare a city population and it's crime in our case.

Look crime is up in our country. I don't dispute that. But instead of arguing skewed statistics why don't we discuss options for resolution?

wait lol are you saying that the crime in London is all within their downtown of one square mile? Oh google fact check first please! Or are you saying that London is suburban outside of that downtown and scews the crime stats?

I can guanantee you that London, in any direction, is way way way way more populated and densley built than anything St. Louis has to offer or just about any American city. Travel and if not google!

Ok since I am going with the second assumption you are trying to make.

Here is another set of stats for you then.

Missouri has a population density of 87 people a square mile and London has a population density of 140 times that but London has 1/2 to 1/3 the number of murders that the whole state of Missouri has but London is also 25% more in population than Missouri. London is all city. Missouri most certainly is not.

Face it American cities, including Chicago where I live are violent enough to be compared to the worst the world has to offer. You can go on about borders and annexation, I mean where is that coming from especially if you think London is suburban outside of that one square mile, but seriosly London is soooooo much more city like in density and built environment over it's 8 million+ people than St. Louis. But St. Louis has a murder rate 26 times higher than London and St. Louis is suburban in comparison to London.

Fact check densities, built environment and even use Google street view too!

[Dawn10am]

Wait. Why are we comparing London and St. Louis? I've lived in both and can assure you they are nothing alike and are completely beyond comparison. That's an exercise in futility.

Yes, American ghettos are worse than European ghettos. Happy? But that applies to even our best cities, not just St. Louis.

[STLCityMike]

I am saying that violent crime is generally limited to dense urban areas of any city. The city of St. Louis has not expanded, so it's crime rate uses the number of occurances divided by the population of a small section of the entire urban area (11% of our metro population base). London continued to extend it's borders, and as such takes it's occrances and spreads them out over a much larger area and population. The city of London represents more than 50% of it's metro area.

London is NOT 26 times the size of St. Louis - you are comparing AGAIN only the city population. St. Louis metro is nearly 3 million - but because we could not annex land, that statistic doesn't include the much larger urban area that is outside of city limits. You and so many are quick to cite the city population when looking at crime. London metro is about 4.5 times the size of St. Louis. That is a huge difference from the 26 you reference.

As I also stated, crime is higher in American cities. I guess you missed that statement.

[DogtownBnR]

The London/St. Louis (or any city in Europe) comparison is just plain stupid. Guns are very tightly regulated in Europe, hence the reason illegal guns are much more rare in London.

Gun politics in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[aragx6]

Clearly murders are lower because there is less gun crime, but is other crime similarly lower in most of Europe? I'm not sure I've ever seen a comparison but are auto thefts, muggins, rapes etc. more rare as well? I'd certainly be curious to see if anyone has any stats.

[socoguy_78]

Hey all!
When I lived in St. Louis, I lived in North County and South County... Never the Actual city. But for my last 15 years I lived in Lemay, right next to South City... Beautiful City with great things like the Zoo, Art Museum and so forth... But what I found driving around the city was this... One street may be run down and look 3rd world in nature, the other street having awesome houses and clean yards, the next street bullet holes in the houses and trash everywhere like wise with each street being nice then bad, then nice and so forth... When I lived in Lemay it was nice until Meth exploded inside of it. It used to be alcohol and marijuana for the residents choice of drugs... but turned to Meth and Lemay started to go down hill especially when 2008 hit. 2 houses away from me kids had a "Meth Tree house", it was in the news. I bought a different house in Lemay next to Lemay park. Beautiful view and a few houses around. New neighbors moved in next door and they made Meth. At night they would vent the meth making vapors and geesh it stunk like nothing I've smelled before. I never called the police because the nieghbors made it known for their retaliation. I just ended up moving and leaving the city area and moved to SouthEAst MO. But my time living next to the city... I thought all the crime, drugs, prostitutes, hatred, predjudices, shootings, murders, falling down homes, streets in needed repair was what most cities were like until I started traveling and found... WOW St. Louis is like a slum compared to what I saw else where. I miss the city and I still love it... But I don't miss is all the things that turned a once great city into what it is today. No I don't have money so I never lived in Chesterfield, Ladue, Oakville, and so forth... but even those areas in certain spots didn't look so inviting. But to say the least I liken St. Louis to a body with free floating cancer... Some spots are good and nice, other spots are nasty and unkind. It's all mixed up everywhere unless you get into the "rich" areas and even still there is crime there... at least the houses, streets, and cars look nice.