St. Louis Public Schools

[scocar]

Originally Posted by flynavyj

Well...if we can't get teachers to enforce the rules as they're written, i highly doubt we'll be convincing parents to move into the SLPS school district and send their children to public education...at least not without a fight.

I also don't really think one teacher needs the support of the entire faculty to enforce a rule that's already outlined in the district handbook. If the teacher says "phones off, or give the phone to me." then the teacher should enforce the rule. Upsetting one or two kids who want to be disruptive is much more acceptable (at least to me) than placing the other 80% of the students in an environment where learning is a challenge.

First off I didn't say the entire faculty, I said a majority. And in reality it doesn't even need to be that high. Second off in the classrooms that I'm in I'd be upsetting at least far more than 1 or 2 kids. In most cases I'd be upsetting over half the class. When Ipods are allowed, just how many high school kids do you really think are going to choose to not use them?

[flynavyj]

Originally Posted by scocar

I agree, but an individual teacher can't do it on their own. The whole campus has to buy-in. The administration has to enforce it. If I went in there and tried to be the only teacher that strictly enforced that rule the students would shut me out. If the whole campus does not enforce it then it's pointless for one teacher to do it. You may have the discipline that you want in your classroom, but you'll never get the kids to cooperate if they hate you. The learning will suffer, just for a different reason.

I personally think kids want and need discipline even if they act like they don't want it. One teacher CAN make a difference...it's normally just easier to come up with reasons why they can't, than to do the things necessary to make the difference.

[scocar]

Originally Posted by flynavyj

I personally think kids want and need discipline even if they act like they don't want it. One teacher CAN make a difference...it's normally just easier to come up with reasons why they can't, than to do the things necessary to make the difference.

Maybe elementary and middle schoolers. I can assure you that juniors and seniors in high school don't want it. You seem to think that teaching is like coaching or the military. It's not. Teachers can't just remove a kid whenever they refuse to follow the exact instructions. The more negative and strict you are the more difficult it will become. If you try and rule with an iron fist you can risk losing the trust of the kids. I would trust what you say more if you actually had experience doing it. . . in the type of environment that I see.

[flynavyj]

Originally Posted by scocar

I would trust what you say more if you actually had experience doing it. . . in the type of environment that I see.

And i'd trust what you say, if you didn't have a conflict of interest.

[scocar]

Originally Posted by flynavyj

And i'd trust what you say, if you didn't have a conflict of interest.

Please explain what conflict of interest I have. I have experience in an area where you have none. I would never pretend to know more about your profession than you do. This is the problem with the public's attitude and perception of the teachers and education. Doctor's are considered experts in medicine. You would never tell a doctor that you know more than him about how to perform surgery. And then tell him he has a conflict of interest when he proclaims to know more than you. Did you tell parents how to parent before ever having kids of your own as well?

[flynavyj]

Look, if we want to continue this conversation we can do it in a PM format. I think enough discussion has been placed on this topic, and there's little need to continue it between two people. In closing, lets improve the test scores in all of the public schools throughout the metro region, including SLPS...Do whatever is necessary on all fronts, parental involvement, teacher productivity, and student morale...make a solid attempt to address any and every potential problem, and you'll see results, nuff said!

[aragx6]

Honestly this argument about teachers not enforcing basic cell phones bans is probably the best (and inadvertant I'm sure) reasoning for the "clean sweep" type of administrative takeover written about in the article. Sometimes a shake up in situations like this appears to be necessary.

Complacency is the enemy of progress.