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It took us three years to figure out that rural Nebraska was the place where we could do whatever we pleased, grow and raise whatever we wanted, enjoy hunting and fishing almost year round, and no one cared or minded our business.
Why Nebraska... in comparison to... lets say South or North Dakota (picking states that seem similar, to make comparison easier)? Just out of curiosity.
Just happened to find a place there you liked; had family there; or was it a more detailed search than that?
Well, we actually started out looking near my brother in ID, but too many CA people were already moving there in droves, and driving prices up. Montana - too rocky, albeit pretty. We looked in ND, SD, MN, and MO as well. ND - every piece of property for sale we found was either close to an encroaching lake (good for fish and water birds, but not for a house and growing things) or ridiculously overpriced. SD - we actually looked at 4 places there; most were either too desolate or too much land. MN - OMG, verry pretty, nice structures, solid barns, but nothing in our price range or the size and amenities we wanted. MO - getting pretty crowded, a lot of what was for sale was either too small or too close to towns. This was at the beginning of the housing bubble collapse, so there was a lot of price disparity across the board - some folks still thinking they could flip houses for an extra $100,000, some folks getting foreclosed on and booted. One house I had made an appointment to see had the appt cancelled the week before - the foreclosed-upon owners had poured cement into every drain pipe before they left.
Nebraska was actually an afterthought. Like most folks, we thought that Nebraska was all flat corn country, like Iowa or Illinois or Indiana (the latter two are where my parents' families originally settled). We were surprised to see rolling hills and tumbling waterfalls. When we got to within 40 miles of the house at which we were going to look, my daughter and I stopped at a motel and restaurant. (DH couldn't come; he couldn't physically take the high-intensity traveling we were doing.)We started talking with the folks, and by golly, they felt the same way we did about things! Then we tasted the water. Mind you, I have never - in all of the places I've ever lived - been able to drink water out of a tap before. The taste, the 'floaters', the scum, the color, all had put me off before. This water was - clear. It had no flavor. None. It blew me away. I asked if they used bottled water and the people laughed at me!! They had no experience with sulphur water, chlorinated or fluoridated water, or floaters or even those little mineral grains; didn't even know what I was talking about. The property here was the right size, the right price, and the house... was amazing. 100 years old, 3-inch maple wainscoting, a wood stove and a propane heater, a full and solid basement, 4 BRs; simply -amazing. I would have had to have paid over $1 million for the house alone back in SC, but 60 acres(already fenced and cross-fenced with 4-or-5-string barbed wire), 2 barns, a feed shed, and an old garage came with it too. The land is hilly but not impossible for cattle or horses to climb and graze. I could stand on the back hill and see the whole tiny town, and beyond. The property was on the northernmost edge of town; so we had 'town' amenities like water and sewer and gravel roads, as well as access to a paved state road, but we could walk for 5 minutes and be out of sight of everything.
We have no family, no ties to the community at all, except us. We have had a few - very few! - family visitors, but a couple more come every year. We can't be a drop-in afterthought, as in "Well, we were in town and thought we'd drop by"; we have to be part of a planned destination or at least on the route - and the latter isn't too likely!
There are a lot of little places like this scattered throughout the US; but this one suited us by size, location (out of the way and distant - 150 miles - from interstates and Wal-Marts) price, political mindset, COL, governmental attitudes, and amenities like fresh clear water and good hay and feed.
Well, we actually started out looking near my brother in ID, but too many CA people were already moving there in droves, and driving prices up. Montana - too rocky, albeit pretty. We looked in ND, SD, MN, and MO as well. ND - every piece of property for sale we found was either close to an encroaching lake (good for fish and water birds, but not for a house and growing things) or ridiculously overpriced. SD - we actually looked at 4 places there; most were either too desolate or too much land. MN - OMG, verry pretty, nice structures, solid barns, but nothing in our price range or the size and amenities we wanted. MO - getting pretty crowded, a lot of what was for sale was either too small or too close to towns. This was at the beginning of the housing bubble collapse, so there was a lot of price disparity across the board - some folks still thinking they could flip houses for an extra $100,000, some folks getting foreclosed on and booted. One house I had made an appointment to see had the appt cancelled the week before - the foreclosed-upon owners had poured cement into every drain pipe before they left.
Nebraska was actually an afterthought. Like most folks, we thought that Nebraska was all flat corn country, like Iowa or Illinois or Indiana (the latter two are where my parents' families originally settled). We were surprised to see rolling hills and tumbling waterfalls. When we got to within 40 miles of the house at which we were going to look, my daughter and I stopped at a motel and restaurant. (DH couldn't come; he couldn't physically take the high-intensity traveling we were doing.)We started talking with the folks, and by golly, they felt the same way we did about things! Then we tasted the water. Mind you, I have never - in all of the places I've ever lived - been able to drink water out of a tap before. The taste, the 'floaters', the scum, the color, all had put me off before. This water was - clear. It had no flavor. None. It blew me away. I asked if they used bottled water and the people laughed at me!! They had no experience with sulphur water, chlorinated or fluoridated water, or floaters or even those little mineral grains; didn't even know what I was talking about. The property here was the right size, the right price, and the house... was amazing. 100 years old, 3-inch maple wainscoting, a wood stove and a propane heater, a full and solid basement, 4 BRs; simply -amazing. I would have had to have paid over $1 million for the house alone back in SC, but 60 acres(already fenced and cross-fenced with 4-or-5-string barbed wire), 2 barns, a feed shed, and an old garage came with it too. The land is hilly but not impossible for cattle or horses to climb and graze. I could stand on the back hill and see the whole tiny town, and beyond. The property was on the northernmost edge of town; so we had 'town' amenities like water and sewer and gravel roads, as well as access to a paved state road, but we could walk for 5 minutes and be out of sight of everything.
We have no family, no ties to the community at all, except us. We have had a few - very few! - family visitors, but a couple more come every year. We can't be a drop-in afterthought, as in "Well, we were in town and thought we'd drop by"; we have to be part of a planned destination or at least on the route - and the latter isn't too likely!
There are a lot of little places like this scattered throughout the US; but this one suited us by size, location (out of the way and distant - 150 miles - from interstates and Wal-Marts) price, political mindset, COL, governmental attitudes, and amenities like fresh clear water and good hay and feed.
You are a pretty good saleswoman for your area! Careful... you'll have all of us "keep-to-ourselves" types moving in.
I assume you are in the northern or northeastern Sand Hills region? Or just northeast of that region? I've only been through that area once, but it's been so long I don't remember it. I do love rolling hills, though--probably my favorite topography. Central Montana has that sort of topography and I've always been drawn to that area.
Well, I don't really understand why these folks have a half a dozen old cars on their property, or a half a dozen old buildings, trailers, and or old buses on their property either. I believe many of them are hoarders, who are odd, and choose to live away from other folks, to be able to continue their odd lifestyle. Well, laws are catching up to them. Fine, have a shed, a nice barn, and a house. I don't see that anyone would mind. But, when you have an old septiic tank that is a danger to MY ground water, yes, I do think that is an issue. These foks thought that they could just live the way they wanted to, outside of normal laws and rules. Nope. And please, don't move to Wyoming.
The deal is that most of the ordinances, etc., were on the books but NOT ENFORCED for a very long time. Because of this, people began "doing their own thing" and nobody bothered finding out the details.
All of a sudden somebody complains and the county decides they are going to start enforcement and the people living there under their ramshackle conditions have no idea.
Most people don't bother finding out about county laws and such before buying into a place. But ignorance is no excuse for the law. Either they have to shape up or ship out.
Once my dh and I was looking at property in the San Luis valley in Colorado. There were lots of "off grid" ramshackle structures there. But when we got a copy of the covenants and restrictions for the subdivision as well as got information from the county, we saw that those structures were in violation. Some day the same thing is going to happen there and the residents will be singing the blues.
The bottom line is that if you don't want to be put in this position, follow the rules.
...These foks thought that they could just live the way they wanted to, outside of normal laws and rules...
"Normal" to whom? To you? To me? "Normal" is completely subjective. Slaves probably thought their condition was "normal" if they were born into it and never saw anything different. Thing is, "normal" is different for everyone. That's the nice thing about liberty--your norm is what you deem it to be.
You have a certain "normal." I have a completely different "normal." If someone wants to live in a tent, pee in the bushes behind their tent, and have ten dozen old cars adorning their place, I couldn't care less. That's their business. As long as my right to do my thing isn't being infringed upon by their activities, I don't care. That's the way liberty and freedom work--people are able to live their lives as they see fit.
There are lot's of things I loath about modern society. Things that I find 100% abnormal. And I can certainly express my opinion on these matters and disapprove, but that's as far as it goes unless it's somehow stepping on my toes. I believe in liberty and the right to engage in a given activity, even if I don't approve of that given activity or state of being. I don't wish to dictate the activities of others based on my opinion of what is "normal." Too bad that's such an... abnormal world view.
There was a valid point made above: if there are existing laws and you move into an area and violate them, then that's your fault. But, personally, I would NEVER even consider in my wildest nightmares moving anywhere close to an area with covenants, property owners associations, or HOAs. No way in hell. As I said, I believe in liberty.
When your lack of proper sanitation is messing up my groundwater, I hope that officials are doing their job, and not condoning that behavior. Remember the issues with Typhus, that we used to have, when people peed where ever they wanted and disposed of fecal matter where ever they felt like? Is that what you want again?
You missed the part where I defined/implied that liberty is the right to do whatever, unless it's negatively effecting others' right to do the same. Typhus will certainly hamper one's liberty, thus activities aiding its spread would not fall under the label of "free agency." But, at the same time, stating that having a junk car in the backyard causes typhus is stretching it. Our society tends to stretch a lot of things. Seems to me that the neighbor having a junk car in the backyard, and you bellyaching about it, would fall under the idea of "I don't like you having a car in your backyard, therefore you shouldn't have the car in the backyard." Simply because you don't like it. That's the sort of thing I am 100% opposed to.
I did not mention cars and typhus in the same sentance. I simply discussed your issue that people should be allowed to "pee in bushes behind their tent". That is a serious health and sanitation issue, that I, as a neighbor, have a right to have an issue with.
I did not mention cars and typhus in the same sentance. I simply discussed your issue that people should be allowed to "pee in bushes behind their tent". That is a serious health and sanitation issue, that I, as a neighbor, have a right to have an issue with.
Obviously, we are from different worlds. In my world peeing on the ground is common; in your world it is not (I assume). I guess the difference is that I spent at least a portion of my formative years in a rural setting. Relieving oneself wherever was not a big deal as long as one was not in plain sight or anything. My grandparents still used a hole in the ground (outhouse) back in the seventies. Nowadays, I jog every day in a local canyon... and pee on the ground along the trail every day. Really... it's no big deal and not a health hazard. I assume the bears up there pee on the ground as well. And the deer. No ill health effects have been noted. The neighbor's dog pees in the back yard, I assume. Again, I've not noted a typhus outbreak locally. Hell, I've peed in the back yard. No epidemic yet.
Tongue-in-cheek comments aside, there is nothing wrong with the two of us being from two different worlds. The problem starts when someone from your world starts trying to set the standards for my world--or the other way around. It simply doesn't work because we are foreign to one another and do not understand each other's worlds. I assume you'd probably have a coronary if your neighbor had an outhouse. Me... I'd think nothing of it. My family didn't have one, but as I said, my grandparents did. I used it many times. To tell you the truth, I'd rather have one myself. Except when a hornet gets in the hole when you're trying to relieve yourself.
Editor's note: do I know the difference between "effect" and "affect"??? Yes I do. Please pardon the grammar sin in the previous post. I try to think of such mind-numbing details, but at times my eyes glaze over.
Second editor's note: how can this post and side topic POSSIBLY have ANYTHING to do with self-sufficiency and survival??? Well... ummm... okay, got it! In a SHTF situation are most of us going to have nice little flushable toilets? Mmmm, probably not. Gonna have to pee in the back yard, guys. And that other yucky thing too.
Last edited by ChrisC; 09-05-2011 at 09:18 PM..
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