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We went to the ballet and there were people in jeans and sneakers. That's just disrespectful to the performers.
Hold on there, Bucky. You ain't in New York City no more. There are different definitions here for you to adapt to. Here, the performers, the musicians, the conductor, and almost everyone else around pretty much doesn't give a damn what anyone wears. That's a very important piece of information for you both to digest. Substance, not surface...
Try that out by going to the opera. Life brought you here to enhance and expand, so if you don't judge and you discard opinions, you'll be able to open to newness in life which will bring newness in you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamza
she really wants to get dressed up and be taken out for a night on the town. I have a really hard time finding places in Seattle where people get dressed up as a point, rather than a frustration.
I have a strange and wondrous idea, which includes the amazing food of the chef, Tom Douglas. Wear business clothes. Or black tie. Or anything in between. This is a delight and will take most of an evening. Teatro ZinZanni Seattle
Last edited by allforcats; 12-11-2008 at 03:24 AM..
Location: Georgia, on the Florida line, right above Tallahassee
10,471 posts, read 15,827,481 times
Reputation: 6438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamza
14. There are almost no children in Seattle city proper. This is amazing to me and very disturbing because in Brooklyn, I got so used to the sound of children’s voices and school bells. There are NO kids here, in the city proper, and as far as I can tell no public schools. We went to an art-show recently in a building that was an old public school. The school fell into disuse because there weren’t any kids to go to it anymore. I found that darkly humorous. On a recent trip to Seattle’s “family” neighborhood, Queen Anne, I counted a total of 4 families on an afternoon walkaround. I find it immensely creepy that, at least in Seattle’s city limits, the only kids I see are homeless teenagers. No mothers with babies at a café or anything. I don’t like it.
How much does a house cost in Seattle city proper? Oooh..Makes you wonder if they are people buying those with money from their last home sale...from some other place. Which makes you wonder if they are older. Which makes you wonder why they don't have young children. Which makes you realize that old people normally don't have young children.
Location: Georgia, on the Florida line, right above Tallahassee
10,471 posts, read 15,827,481 times
Reputation: 6438
Quote:
Originally Posted by allforcats
Hold on there, Bucky. You ain't in New York City no more. There are different definitions here for you to adapt to. Here, the performers, the musicians, the conductor, and almost everyone else around pretty much doesn't give a damn what anyone wears. That's a very important piece of information for you both to digest. Substance, not surface...
Try that out by going to the opera. Life brought you here to enhance and expand, so if you don't judge and you discard opinions, you'll be able to open to newness in life which will bring newness in you.
I have a strange and wondrous idea, which includes the amazing food of the chef, Tom Douglas. Wear business clothes. Or black tie. Or anything in between. This is a delight and will take most of an evening. Teatro ZinZanni Seattle
Allforcats needs 10,000 hugs. Line forms to the right. Back up buddy, I get the first 5,000.
Closed minded people irritate the crap out of me. Sometimes, you gotta lay back and just enjoy the show that is life. Otherwise, you spend more time dissecting what is wrong than enjoying what is right.
Allforcats needs 10,000 hugs. Line forms to the right. Back up buddy, I get the first 5,000.
Okay, keys in hand, where do we meet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 70Ford
Sometimes, you gotta lay back and just enjoy the show that is life. Otherwise, you spend more time dissecting what is wrong than enjoying what is right.
Oh I wish I'd said that!! Perfectly put! Thank you for improving what I said.
Wow it’s been a long time since I’ve posted. I apologize for the absence but it took a little time to get settled here. Seattle certainly is a different world than NYC, with many wonderful things and a few drawbacks. So, in a tribute to my own hubris, I’d like to post some of my thoughts.
Pros (with a few cons):
1. The City’s Look: Seattle is a truly beautiful city. In some brilliant flash of design, Seattle’s city builders seemed to have decided to stick trees wherever they couldn’t think of a place to put something. And it makes the city a lovelier place for it. I have never lived somewhere so green and bucolic. I love it.
2. The City’s Costs: Seattle is surprisingly expensive. I say this and I am coming from NYC. By far the largest price difference is in groceries. My grocery bill went up 30%, and that’s not just because of tax. The local QFC in Capitol Hill on Broadway is, frankly, criminally priced. We shop at Trader Joes which is less expensive, even if you have to rent a Zipcar.
3. …’s Transportation: The Bus System is great if you live between downtown and the U-district. Outside of that buy a car. But inside of that – no need! And there’s Zipcars all over this place.
4. …’s Restaurants: I have never eaten better food in my life. Say whatever you want about Seattle not being a world class city, this city has possibly the best restaurants I’ve ever eaten at. And at a cost that’s lower than NYC (amazingly, compared to groceries.)
5. …’s Single Scene: Come here married, or about to get married. Do not date in Seattle. Even my gay friends here say the (new) dating scene is tiny because everyone here has dated everyone else.
6. …’s Art Scene: Tiny but the higher arts are awesome. Seattle has a wonderful ballet and opera company. If you’re looking for smaller galleries or artists, there are very few gems.
7. …’s Activity Scene: Unless you’re into outside sports, etc., there’s surprisingly little to do in Seattle. Most of the most interesting things to do in Seattle involve outside activities – which are a blast – including kayaking, hiking, running, biking, sports, etc.
Cons (with a few pros):
8. The City’s Vibe: Present company on this forum excepted, most people in Seattle are just plain weird. There is an enormously passive-aggressive vibe with a lot of the people here. They won’t directly come out and call you an *******, which I’d prefer, but just be really snotty about it. And if you’re not snotty, you are ice-cold silent. Especially in Capitol Hill, people look at the ground a lot. If you look them in the eyes, they’ll look to the ground. If you talk to them, they’ll look embaressed, silent, eyes to the ground and walk away. People don’t really just strike up conversations with other people unless they’re hitting on you.
And speaking of dating and sex, there is, what I feel to be, a tremendous undercurrent of sex and drugs in Seattle that – I suspect – is due to the weather. Because there’s not much inducement to go outside 9 months out of the year here, people “cave” themselves a lot, drink, and have sex. There is a tremendous “swinging” scene here – especially in Capitol Hill – and in our 5-6 months here, we’ve had two incidences where when meeting new couples, we were invited to “swap” partners. Sometimes the invitations were subtle, sometimes they were blatant – but all were surprising.
And drugs are everywhere. And I mean everywhere. Everyone around us seems to do them. Walking from Cap Hill to downtown, I smell a lot of weed, and that’s because people just kinda chill and smoke it on the street. And weed’s not the problem – it’s the hundreds of meth addicts in our neighborhood. So yeah, lots of sex and drugs in Seattle.
And homeless. For what we pay in rent, I am surprised that I feel uncomfortable letting my significant other walk home at night alone, from the bus stop to home – a whopping 4-5 blocks. Seattle teems with homeless of the creepy variety, and a surprising amount of teenage homeless kids. Or teenage kids who try an awful lot to look homeless. In many ways, this place feels like Berkeley in the early 90s.
But this is not doing justice to the nice things about the people in Seattle. We have also met a handful of really wonderful people here. What is surprising about it, however, is that they were all in the particular clique of my fiancée’s professional world. They’re all friends from her job. And that’s the key to meeting new people here – you meet and make friends with people basically inside your immediate social circle. In NYC, we had friends from all walks of life – my fiancée and I met on the train – and both those things would never happen in Seattle. This place must be impenetrable for new people who don’t have existing connections in Seattle.
And a little aside: We know we’re almost home when we see the enormous ***** dangling from the powerlines above the street, close to our house. True story. The sex vibe in Seattle is nuts.
9. …’s Job Market: The city is in for a major bust. We were fortunate enough to both move here with jobs but for those coming without them, I wouldn’t advise it. WaMu is already burst and there are for –sale or for-rent signs everywhere. Seattle seems to be behind the rest of the country’s economy by a year. In 8-12 months, I expect things to get significantly worse here.
Neutrals (depending on taste)
10. The coffee here is really, really spectacular.
11. Nobody here seems to know of, or talk about, Frasier, which is weird to me. In NYC, New Yorkers quoted Seinfeld all the time – but here, no one quotes Frasier except me. And I consider Frasier to be a far superior show.
12. The rent here is as expensive, technically, as it is in NYC, but what you get here is just a different world than in NYC. New, clean, renovated, cool housing. I’m very happy with our living situation, which is a good thing since, as previously mentioned, people “cave” in Seattle.
13. It doesn’t really rain here very much. It’s just gray a lot. Not rain, but very little sunshine. Still it’s not as bad as everyone says it is. However, during winter, it gets light around 8-9 AM (late for me) and gets dark by 5 PM (early for me).
14. There are almost no children in Seattle city proper. This is amazing to me and very disturbing because in Brooklyn, I got so used to the sound of children’s voices and school bells. There are NO kids here, in the city proper, and as far as I can tell no public schools. We went to an art-show recently in a building that was an old public school. The school fell into disuse because there weren’t any kids to go to it anymore. I found that darkly humorous. On a recent trip to Seattle’s “family” neighborhood, Queen Anne, I counted a total of 4 families on an afternoon walkaround. I find it immensely creepy that, at least in Seattle’s city limits, the only kids I see are homeless teenagers. No mothers with babies at a café or anything. I don’t like it.
15. There isn’t really a nightlife here beyond singles bars. Almost everything closes up in our area – Capitol Hill – by 10pm. And Capitol Hill is apparently the most night-life-ish part of the city. This is bad, on one hand, because we miss staying out until 2am partying. On the other hand, we’re saving money hand-over-fist and getting lots of work done. So it balances!
So, right now, 6-months in, I really do like Seattle very much. I knew it’d be different than NYC. However, I have immediate doubts if this is the place I’d settle permanently, primarily because I do not want to raise a family within this city. Way too many drugs and a very weird, sexualized culture. And no other kids for my potential children to socialize with except for the seemingly homeless.
That’s it for now – stay tuned.
I needed some time to digest this post... After I did, this is the first impression that I got: First (pros part): Seattle is a very beautiful but expensive city, full of wonderfull restaurants. It has some good public transportation in some areas, but you still need a car. Seattle has wonderful art scene and great outdoors, but... other than outside activities, there is not much to do in Seattle. Second part (cons part): "Most people in Seattle are just plain weird". There is a prominent sex and drugs scene in Seattle. Homeless-like people walking like zombies in the streets of Seattle and... no kids. Job market is not so great, especially for people moving to Seattle without a job. Seattle is a great place, but staying long-term and raising kids there?..
As I said before, it's a very interesting post that left me confused at the end. The impression I got from this post is mine only, so guys don't tell me I misinterpreted or misunderstood something. My impression is based solely on Hamza's post and does not tell what I PERSONALLY think about Seattle. This is MY summation only. Hamza mentioned some very interesting things I didn't see in other threads. Surprisingly, no one from other posters, in my opinion, addressed those things. I am about to move from NYC to Seattle, too. After 6 months of moving, I'll let you know.
Hold on there, Bucky. You ain't in New York City no more. There are different definitions here for you to adapt to. Here, the performers, the musicians, the conductor, and almost everyone else around pretty much doesn't give a damn what anyone wears. That's a very important piece of information for you both to digest. Substance, not surface...
Try that out by going to the opera. Life brought you here to enhance and expand, so if you don't judge and you discard opinions, you'll be able to open to newness in life which will bring newness in you.
No way, never. For many things yes. But Ballet and Opera come from a grandly classical tradition. Would you wear sloppy clothes to church? A wedding? Why not -- that's substance, not surface right? The Ballet and Opera are high arts that when people go to should want to look their best. It makes my blood pressure soar when people look like they're going to the mall when they go out. Part of the decline of this country.
Have some respect for the people who have invested their entire lives into an art to make something beautiful for you. If you asked any of the performers, musicians, singers -- anyone -- I'm sure each and every one would say that they'd prefer people dress appropriately. There's nothing snobby or close-minded about respecting the institution and your hosts.
Don't fear. Come (with a job). You'll love it. It's an adjustment is all. Yes there are alot of drugs here, I don't think anyone will deny that. But I'm also starting to understand it REALLY depends on the neighborhood you decide to move to. Capitol Hill seems to have alot of homeless and junkies. But that's not true for all Seattle, I'm sure. People here have been talking about how nice northeast Seattle is -- families, etc. There's not alot where I am, but apparently there *are* families in other parts of Seattle.
No way, never. For many things yes. But Ballet and Opera come from a grandly classical tradition. Would you wear sloppy clothes to church? A wedding? Why not -- that's substance, not surface right? The Ballet and Opera are high arts that when people go to should want to look their best. It makes my blood pressure soar when people look like they're going to the mall when they go out. Part of the decline of this country.
Have some respect for the people who have invested their entire lives into an art to make something beautiful for you. If you asked any of the performers, musicians, singers -- anyone -- I'm sure each and every one would say that they'd prefer people dress appropriately. There's nothing snobby or close-minded about respecting the institution and your hosts.
Wow. And i thought i knew judgemental people in utah while living there.
I can't say i'd go to a church that didn't welcome everybody to wear what they were MOST comfortable in. Deities care not for our garb. It's simply believed that we should be good in spirit and heart. And when i have a wedding, you can bet your ass i'll encourage anyone who comes to do so as they are comfortable with. If they want to show up in board shorts and flip flops, i may not agree with it, but i sure won't relegate them to the back of the room.
I don't own a tie. I have never worn one. I don't even know what a suit, tie, or "jacket" costs. Anyone who'd judge another solely because they're not "dressed" to their standards can go pss up a rope. Granted, i wont wear clothes i worked on my cars in, to go to work, a job interview, or even sushi. But i'm not going to go out and buy a new wardrobe just because some overly haughty, self righteous prats seem to think one shouldn't enjoy the arts unless their appearance is suitable.
I don't believe that just because someone is dressed a certain way means they're more respectful. As a matter of fact, some of the most disrespectful circumstances i have ever come across, were from people in suits. Often times those that feel they are "better dressed" can turn condescending, disrespectful, and rude. Especially to those who do not share a similar appearance. The current Illinois governor wears a suit to work every day.. does this show he's more "respectful" of the years his peers have invested, or their entire lives, in order to make the country a beautiful place to live? Obviously not.
Hamza, I live very near to you on Cap Hill and I understand some of your con remarks. My main complaint is the street kids and weirdos that inhabit Broadway. Sometimes it's just plain gross and I could never understand why in an area that is so expensive, the main business drag can be so destitute. Broadway is the ****tiest main drag of any of Seattle's neighborhoods. Go to Ballard and notice how much better the shops, restaurants etc. are.
As far as comparing New York City to Seattle, I always find it funny how people from NYC compare the two cities as if they are on par. I mean, NYC is one of the biggest most diverse and international cities in the world and there is no way Seattle will ever stack up as far as the art scene amongst other things. I know that is where you came from and therefore your point of reference, but Seattle should really only be compared to other cities of its size and stature. If you do that, you will see that Seattle has a lot to offer in the arts and especially the music scene.
One last thing. My theory on people in Seattle as far as being standoffish or whatever. Seattle is the kind of city that attracts introverts. When I was growing up in the southwest USA, all I wanted was to live somewhere that i could listen to the Smiths while it was raining outside and then go to a cafe and read etc, that place for me is Seattle. We read books like crazy here and yes, maybe we spend too much time indoors due to weather, but that is why Seattle is such a big city for music. What I don't understand is how a city so full of everyone from a bunch of supposedly more outgoing places like NYC and others are not making friends. I mean, shouldn't all those well socialized out of towners be finding each other and making a great social scene amongst themselves. You are esentially living in a city where hardly anyone comes from the area. I don't know, I've posed this question to others who don't have the answer. What do you think?
As far as comparing New York City to Seattle, I always find it funny how people from NYC compare the two cities as if they are on par. I mean, NYC is one of the biggest most diverse and international cities in the world and there is no way Seattle will ever stack up as far as the art scene amongst other things. I know that is where you came from and therefore your point of reference, but Seattle should really only be compared to other cities of its size and stature.
I don't agree with this statement. As far as you don't compare NYC's and Seattle's sizes (and similar "quantity" things), of course you can compare the two. I am doing it all the time. For example, you can compare lifestyles, weather, economies, taxes, crime rates, average commuting time to work and other "comparable" things. I am saying this because I'm thinking about moving from NYC to Seattle, too. I like Hamza's points. I want to know what to expect before I move. In addition, when I do reseach on, say, rents or salaries in Seattle, guess what city I'm comparing it to? NYC, of course, because this is where I am now. I am comparing my current living conditions and feelings with what I could expect and how my life would change (spiritually, intellectually, or financially) should I move to Seattle.
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There is a prominent sex and drugs scene in Seattle. Homeless-like people walking like zombies in the streets of Seattle and... no kids. Job market is not so great, especially for people moving to Seattle without a job. Seattle is a great place, but staying long-term and raising kids there?.. 
