Time for Big Bertha to gracefully withdraw? (Seattle, Olympia: 2013, amusement park)

[wutitiz]

It's time to stop the Seattle tunnel project - The Dori Monson Show - MyNorthwest.com

Talk host Dori Monson says yes. Drilling began in July 2013. After 6 months, Bertha has covered about 1000 feet of an 8900 foot journey. Big Bertha is currently shut down, with no estimate of when she will restart. Monson says that according to his inside sources, which have been accurate in the past, the current delay could stretch to one year. If so, that's about 18 months per 1000 feet, or a pace of about 13.5 years to completion.

Even before the current hangup, the project was in trouble:
Huge tunneling machine off to painfully slow start | Local News | The Seattle Times

And it sounds like the current phase is the easy part of the journey, under open ground. Once Bertha gets underneath downtown buildings and gets stuck, what then? Cut the losses, pull it out, and either fill the hole, or turn it into a tourist attraction of some kind. World's biggest man-made hole.

Even if they have the contractor on the hook, this is Seattle, and this is Washington state. The taxpayer is going to take the hit. Boston's Big Dig was supposed to cost $2.8 billion, and wound up at $14.6 billion. If that's where we end up, that is over $2000 from every man, woman and child in the state, for 1.7 miles of roadway.

[DevanXL]

Originally Posted by wutitiz

[url=http://mynorthwest.com/76/2438788/Its-time-to-stop-the-Seattle-tunnel-project]

And it sounds like the current phase is the easy part of the journey, under open ground. Once Bertha gets underneath downtown buildings and gets stuck, what then? Cut the losses, pull it out, and either fill the hole, or turn it into a tourist attraction of some kind. World's biggest man-made hole.

Call it the hole failure! or Maybe turn it into an indoor amusement park! But on a serious not I think me are too far in just cut our loses. So much has been planned around the completion of the tunnel and would completely eliminate all the projects down for the waterfront. I hope Bertha gets started again without any mishaps. Though I doubt it will reach the expense of the Big Dig.

[cdelena]

Yep, we have a short tunnel to nowhere and a leaking floating bridge and these people want to raise gas taxes for more projects. Meanwhile they have walked away from the 100 year old bridge between Washington and Oregon hoping Oregon will handle the project... and those are the people that have spent millions and have yet to get their health care website to work. We badly need to find a way to privatize transportation infrastructure.

[DevanXL]

Originally Posted by cdelena

Yep, we have a short tunnel to nowhere and a leaking floating bridge and these people want to raise gas taxes for more projects. Meanwhile they have walked away from the 100 year old bridge between Washington and Oregon hoping Oregon will handle the project... and those are the people that have spent millions and have yet to get their health care website to work. We badly need to find a way to privatize transportation infrastructure.

True but I don't think any government really likes the use of private money for public infrastructure projects, as they possibly would lose control over the project entirely. I mean if I ever become Multi-Billionaire I would be more then happy to flip half the bill to some largest infrastructure projects that exist in the city but I'm not sure how the politicians in Olympia would feel about it.

[dicecobb]

Once again, the wisdom of the great former mayor, Michael McGinn, comes to light. The man was perfect for Seattle but they hated him! Seattle deserves this disaster!

[Seacove]

No.

[Ira500]

Originally Posted by dicecobb

Once again, the wisdom of the great former mayor, Michael McGinn, comes to light. The man was perfect for Seattle but they hated him! Seattle deserves this disaster!

The problem with McGinn was not his opposition to the tunnel. I think he was right on that issue. Unfortunately, he blundered a bunch of times early on, digging himself a grave he couldn't get out of.
And Seattle's got this history of just plowing ahead with new/untried technology, or going with projects where a lot can go wrong.
Tearing down Denny Hill was one. Metro's Breda buses in the early 90's, the dual modes from Italy was another example. The transmissions all needed to be replaced at something like 30,000 miles. Now Sound Transit will be employing unusual technology on the First Hill streetcar, with no power source for a block or so going down the hill on Jackson St, relying on regenerative braking and prayer.
I would have been perfectly happy if they'd simply earthquake retrofitted the Viaduct and continued using it.
I think this will only the first episode of "Tunnel Troubles".

[Steve Bowen]

Originally Posted by Ira500

I would have been perfectly happy if they'd simply earthquake retrofitted the Viaduct and continued using it.

I thought it was well documented that the viaduct could not be seismically retrofitted, at least not without the costs making the current tunnel boondoggle look reasonable in comparison.

[wutitiz]

I no longer live in Seattle, so I don't have a dog in the fight, but I could see the argument for a tunnel. If you're going to do a project like this, invest the money and do it right. I lived most of my adult life in Chicago, where the lake front is basically one long public park. It was great.

The problem for me is that I don't trust the track record of the current DOT and politicos. The 520 bridge is projected to cost 18 times what the original cost (inflation adjusted). Why would it be any different with the viaduct replacement? I hope I'm wrong, but I fear a catastrophic conclusion to this project. The 1000 feet so far is the easy part. The surface street solution proposed by the greenies would have been better. Adjustments would have been made, and all affected would have learned to live with it.

[Ira500]

Originally Posted by Steve Bowen

I thought it was well documented that the viaduct could not be seismically retrofitted, at least not without the costs making the current tunnel boondoggle look reasonable in comparison.

Depends who you ask. A very well known structural engineer, Victor Grey, estimated that the viaduct could be retrofitted for 1.2 billion. But the state said he was wrong, that it would cost twice that much. But I'm not sure that they're an entirely objective source, or a particularly competent one. Between the 520 cost overruns and Big Bertha's woes, you'd think that WSDOT was being run by The Three Stooges.