Raising Children in Seattle-Bellevue vs. West LA/Manhattan: Atmosphere/aura/experience ??? (Medina: how much, house)

[BellevueNative]

Originally Posted by soci3tycat

I recently ran into some very insightful information on Bellevue area, thanks to another poster. I was wondering if they were true, as they ran counter to my impressions on Bellevue (I'm not native). I'll post some questions, then shed some background info on myself:


The main reason I wanted to be in Seattle was to raise my future children away from the Hollywood/Manhattan culture of being "in"--which extends to charity work--and more around family-oriented and humanitarian values. In general, for those at the upper echelon of society, both worlds are exclusive and based on money and status to an extreme bent. It's true that there are some major humanitarians, but I'm speaking more of the typical society person you run into. In those places, generally people donate and attend charity events because it's something to do, not because they necessarily believe in the cause. To reiterate, instead of participating or donating because individuals truly feel it is important, many individuals from LA/NYC society participate only "to be see and be seen." While I don't expect this sort of mentality to be eradicated in any locale, I got the vibe this was less rampant in Seattle than in LA/NYC. My questions are directed at discovering whether these notions are true/unwarranted.


1) Is it true that in Seattle, there is more direction towards family-oriented and humanitarian values here?

- My visits to Seattle have largely been around the U-Village and U-District, mostly around doctors and surgeons, which I know isn't representative of the whole Seattle population. From these visits and at least around these people, it seems that in Seattle, there's more of that positive aura here than in Hollywood/Manhattan--where people help because they really want to, not just see and be seen. It seems like a less "status"-oriented place, where it is easier to infuse children with meaning and direction, but I would like to confirm this with locals.


2) I am strict about sending my kids to public schools; I want them to be a bit more in touch with reality, but I would like them to go to the top public schools in Bellevue/Issaquah area. What is the general top public school experience like in Bellevue/Issaquah area?

- I'm trying to avoid the phenomenon where they go to school with mostly billionaires and their social norms become warped. My friends out in the mid-west and east coast that went to top private schools seem to be out of touch with reality (even more-so than friends who went to Harvard-Westlake in CA). A lot of them think they are just average or below average financially, but they need to compare themselves to the average American, not the average billionaire, and be happy with their situation. It's a strange phenomenon that I dislike.


3) While I will home my kids in one of the best and safest parts of town with access to the best public schools, I want them through their extracurriculars to be exposed to a range of people and situations. If my children grow up in Bellevue, is there still opportunity for this kind of local exposure? Are there a number of other families or teens that strive for a more worldly life?

- I ask because the few children I do know in the Bellevue/Medina area (only 4) are extreme partiers with little interest in helping others. Their interests consist of love and romance, travel, concerts, and shopping. Only 1 of 4 cares about an education, but even so, she doesn't think of others and helping others. 4 is a small sample size, I know, so I am asking around.

- I am willing to drive my children around anywhere in the city to gain necessary experiences. I really want them to realize growing up in a MM home is not the norm for many, that they should appreciate it, and that they should want to give back. I want them to grow up helping others, and hopefully with other children.


4) About society culture in Seattle--my bf mentioned there's lots of charity events and charity auctions that his family and friends meet to help local institutions. I ask here because, well, I'm not sure if I'd get a non-biased answer from him. I heard from another poster however that Bellevue and Medina area people who frequent these events are clique-ish and exclusive? ...Does anyone know if, IN GENERAL, people participate in these events just as part of the social culture/for business, or do you know if they actually care about helping others?


-----
ABOUT ME:

I grew up in Irvine and the Palisades, CA, but I guess I'm a little bit of a granola-type at heart, without the super outdoorsy-lifestyle (minus being with horses). Perhaps I'm more of a Northern Californian at heart in my philosophies and world views (though I wouldn't want to live in CA or IL due to their current political corruption and bankruptcy/taxation issues). I think success is not just financial, but it's an attitude, mentality, and love for others; I think health is about being open-minded and accepting of others, and helping wherever you can, but also identifying and taking yourself away from those who harm you.

I've heard from many peers that I'm a bit weird or unusual. For example, I don't vacation. Instead, I travel and volunteer/help in places that open my eyes. I'm scared of being sucked into a world of "norms" where it's easy to ignore anything that isn't pleasing or easy to deal with. I plan to take my children on these trips to volunteer so they can see the range of realities across this Earth, and that it is important they don't forget those less privileged. I'd like to show my future children it is important to be successful so you can help others in meaningful ways (not just giving away chunks of money meaninglessly, but to organized programs that help the less privileged set up their lives well through academia or other specific work skills, elderly, or infirmed). I'm under the impression Seattle is filled with more individuals with a similar vision than say, West LA/Manhattan.

I'll preface this by saying I've had a relatively privileged life, fortunately coupled with a strong humanitarian education and upbringing. My family has always been very involved in improving the community. No need to be attacked by other posters or have people post "donate all your income to help others" etc. I've already dealt with that in my other post, and this is not a post for that kind of discussion.

I didn't mean to give you the impression that people from Medina don't care about the charities they affiliate themselves with. I know a number of people there that not only believe in causes - they start organizations to help raise funds for them. There is definitely a lot of passion for causes from the people I know.

The wealth and charity circuit here is very different from LA/NYC. We don't have the celebrity and media culture, which makes a huge difference. So yes, it is much more down to earth here. I've joked with friends that if Bravo were to do a Real Housewives of Seattle edition, it would be like watching a space alien culture for the people used to watching RH Orange County, RH Beverly Hills or RH New York. You've said it yourself: you've sensed the difference.

I don't think it's reasonable to assume that teenagers are going to be selfless and consider everything with a worldly view. Some kids do, but most teens care about their friends more than anything. Once they go off to college they will have the opportunity to really think for themselves. That's why I believe it's important for kids to go away to college, and it's why I opted not to go to UW. I went to college in California, to a school where I only knew one other person. There are things you can do to keep them grounded: volunteer as a family, get them involved in sports early on, join a church/house of worship if you're believers. First Presbyterian Church of Bellevue has very active youth groups that draw kids from all over the Eastside, whether their parents are members of the church or not. I went on many work mission trips with them in middle school and high school. Also, I believe the Bellevue SD now requires community service hours in order to graduate.

[soci3tycat]

Originally Posted by Inkpoe

Oh gosh... Nothing like security details, LOL.

Here's a short one: There was a kid, whose family was pretty well known in the Bellevue circles as his father (who also graduated from Newport HS) opened a construction company right out of HS and did real well. The kid, we'll call him Colt. Colt really wanted a white Ford 250 truck with all the "redneck" gear and all these other add-ons (like a PA system for example). On his 16th birthday his family decided to surprise him with a brand new car. Colt threw an absolute fit when he saw the red BMW M3 (and this was confirmed by his friends/classmates who saw it go down). Colt chewed his parents out in front of everyone and vowed he would never drive the car. The car actually sat in the garage for a year untouched. The parents were surprised and amazed by his resolve that when his 17th birthday came around, they went and got him exactly what he wanted. One of his friends was telling this whole story to the teacher and added that he would only be too happy to take that BMW. The friend is basically a poor first generation Fijian. Colt looks at his friend and says: "Where are you going to put it? You live in an apartment."

lol I didn't know what "redneck" gear was for a car. I had to look it up. Funny story, I feel very bad for his parents. I don't like when teens treat their parents badly in general, but especially in front of others. I realize that going to a decent HS, you won't be able to get away from elitism. What I'm trying to avoid (if the distinction makes sense) is losing a sense of "where I stand socioeconomically in society." I don't want their HS society to seem normal to them, which it really can become, no matter how much someone volunteers with their kids... Some friends grew up with billionaires, and so they perpetually thinks they're average or below lol. But they're actually doing really well. I mean, what kind of people can afford $33,000 for KINDERGARTEN???? It's unreal... It's very strange phenom, I always give them the face. Lmk if you have any other great stories!

I wish I could say the security detail thing was a joke or someone trying to show off. Sadly, she really meant it lol. My friend spends $300-500/wk taking his gf out to dinners. They eat out almost every night. But when I asked him if he realized that is a privileged person thing, he doesn't get it... at all. Wtf? lol. Like normal 18-25 year olds do not drop cash like that, and that's only on food...

I went to a public HS filled with wealthy people and not much diversity, it was 85% Caucasian and had only 5% of kids that were considered under-privileged. There was definitely entitlement and elitism, BUT my norms weren't warped like some of my friends at really elite prepschools lol. Because there weren't any billionaires/etc at my HS. I don't seek to avoid elitism completely; it's impossible. I just want them to not go to a school populated with 20+ billionaires/etc.

[RVD90277]

I think that every public school in the greater Seattle area will be fine for staying grounded. Even at the best high schools, the kids are privileged but there will be some poorer folks and many kids will not have cars, have old hand me down cars, have a meager allowance, etc.

There are probably some private schools (Lakeside, Forest Ridge, etc.) that might be more elitist since those schools cost almost $30k/year but even so, I actually most kids are fairly well grounded.

I went to private school for high school, public school for university, private school for grad school and I think I'm fairly well grounded. I did have some friends who were fairly clueless to the world around them and to some extent I probably still am (I am republican after all...) but even my friends who fathers who ran billion dollar corporations ate the same crappy lunches that I did and hung out at the same cafes, etc. I guess the only difference was that they had cars with chauffeurs but even then, they usually had to share it with their mom so sometimes they took the bus, etc.

[skidamarink]

I went to a high school in a military town (civilian, not on-base, but comprised of many military families). The school had an unusually equal mix of students from all socioeconomic and racial backgrounds, including students bussed in from a nearby large, urban city and from the poorer rural towns. But I wouldn't say there was positive interaction between these groups. Tons of passive-aggressive racism as well as in-your-face, but the economic disparity was even stronger. There were definite factions amongst these groups, and you'd see the common circumstance of poor kids who start to develop an inferiority complex from being around all these rich kids who have everything. I can point out several of these folks I graduated with who would end up using their student loans and scholarships to splurge on ridiculous luxury items and cars. Granted, anyone could do that whether they grew up seeing that or not but I have no doubt that this spending behavior stemmed from being the poor kid in school all those years and seeing the glorified rich kids with it. These wealthy kids weren't "more understanding" because they went to school with less fortunate students. If anything, it just made them more exclusive.

Point is, don't assume all is well just because it's "diverse." Status anxiety will never die. If you are worried about your kids getting a worldly view, YOU should be the one to influence that. I would worry more about the quality of teachers and education at the school. You can't always shield them from ignorant mentalities.

[SelfReflector]

Not sure if this would help as I'm not a native, but also looking to move to the area. I DO have kids, so I am looking at schools, and this is my process of elimination. I'm going to receive a lot of flak for this, because there are generalisations, and that of course contains prejudice. But, not being able to look at the individual circumstance, I'm going to have to make some judgment calls.

- Although Mercer Island schools have a great rep, I've decided against the area because I'm a little concerned about lack of choice re High Schools. I'm getting the impression that a high school filled with rich kids is more likely to have a drug culture and a certain aimlessness.

- Comparing Bellevue and Lake Washington SDs, they do look quite different in terms of offerings (AP and the like) but I was interested to see that LWSD offers Cambridge in some High Schools, but I didn't see that Bellevue did. There's a lottery system running across the board in both SDs which keeps things on a more equal footing - not concentration of any particular demographic. To be honest, I think any child who needed stimulation would find options in either SD, whether or not they make the Choice schools, or highly-rated high schools like International Community. I'm getting the impression that Bellevue is wealthier (the house prices certainly suggest that), but whether or not that trickles down to the schools is another issue. You might want to deliberately choose a school in a less wealthy area (so not Medina etc) if you want your kids to be more salt-of-the-earth. Does this sound about right, natives?

- I also looked at the demographic changes over the years for each individual school. They are quite startling in some cases. Some for example, have had a huge shift over the last couple of years to more Asian students (esp in Bellevue). This actually puts Bellevue a little ahead of Lake Washington SD for me personally. More diversity. Cultural balance (my kids have Asian in them so I would like them to have more exposure to the culture). And I hesitate to say this, but I would also say, less drug culture. Not that there are no Asian kids doing drugs, but my feeling is fewer do (probably watched by Tiger Moms). Considering that peers are the largest influence on drug experimentation, this to me is important.

So, perhaps for different reasons than the norm, my definition of the best schools contain more of what I think are the social aspects of schooling in an area where there are a lot of wealthy people who are a little out of touch with reality. I think "average" in Bellevue is already a bit out of sync with average in the rest of the world. (I've been reading 'Where Children Sleep' at the same time as house hunting, and people, we just have no idea! People pay rent to live in rubbish dumps, sleep on mattresses in fields ... and then you have these luxury houses (or even just decent houses with a proper roof) and people are complaining about them ...) My son told me he wanted a bigger bedroom and I felt like blasting him with "Do you have any idea how other people live?!" But I realise it is unfair. He is brought up the way he is. I can show him, but I can't scold him for not knowing. Anyway, I think it is great if you are planning to bring your kids to volunteer. I've been thinking I'd try that too.

Anyway, hope that helps. I think we have different concerns, but it does boil down to getting a good education without a lot of the unwanted fringe issues.

[soci3tycat]

@RVD - I think your posts are really useful. I think some people think I'm trying to eliminate any elitist notions or that it is avoidable. It's never avoidable. I just don't want them schooled with 20+ billionaires where they come to think that world is normal. That's funny to hear about the chauffeurs shared with moms and the dads eating at the "same crappy lunches." Lol You've helped put a lot of my concerns/questions about public school in WA to rest.

@skidamarink - I'm seeking to present more "average" norms starting at a young age until college. As I just elaborated, I don't want them schooled with 20+ billionaires. I'm not purely speaking about that in itself overcoming class factions. I went to a magnet middle school similar to what you just described. It's true that there were factions among the gifted magnet group and the rest. The school actively promoted that at as well. The cultures were too different and there isn't time made in school to address these issues, so people stay in their groups. Having an open mind is fostered at home. That being said, in elementary school I didn't really know money but I expected everyone was probably like me. Then I went to middle school and was like, "wow this is different in good and bad ways." For high school, I ended up going to my zoned high school, where 95% of the school was well off. The 5% were probably athletic transfers. Still, there were no billionaires, so I never grew up thinking being surrounded by billionaires is normal. So, when I went to college and became a "young adult," my norms were already solidified. I was/am able to appreciate what I do and don't have.

One of the most selfless and nicest people my age I know grew up around billionaires, dated multimillionaires, etc. He truly believes making $700,000 is "good." Not amazing. When I asked why, he said, "rich people have a lot of bills" (this is largely true, but it's bc they choose to live their life extravagantly, not simply). To him and many people I know, $200,000-$300,000 is "ok not great/need to be doing better." I don't think that's great. I think they should be exposed on a daily basis around more "average" norms. They rarely think about volunteering and stuff, because they're too caught up thinking they're too busy furthering their career/etc. They don't realize being able to afford $70,000 is a good thing in itself. They don't understand that some people's families HAVE to live "regularly" because they're paying private college expenses. If they didn't pay those expenses, they'd have a nice life.

I'm not sure if people can/will understand what I am saying unless they have experienced/known many others who attended exclusive prep schools like Harvard-Westlike, the Kate School, Philips Exeter, Andover, Chote, Milton, Deerfield, the Bollittierri School, etc. No, I'm not name-dropping. These schools have an culture worth noting/exactly what I'm talking about/where a significant # of my peers went. These aren't the typical local private Catholic schools. These schools are rich people central. It's literally insane, and to grow up around that, your norms really do get warped. Many kids get a few cars for their 16 birthdays, wear $100,000+ rolexes, etc. It's just how most C-level executives and higher choose to raise their kids. I can choose how to raise mine, but I can't choose how others raise theirs, so it's important for me to regulate those norms for them when they're young. Now, why am I concerned WA might be like this? As I mentioned, I know 4 kids from Seattle-area. All 4 of their parents are worth a few hundred million. All of these kids are crazy, in my opinion. They're really into ecstasy and going to raves. They don't care about school or helping others. Being rich to them is normal, they just lost perspective of what's "normal."

When you're young, it's easy to become lost in your world, regardless of what parents teach you. It's important for me to help make their world as "normal" as possible, from how I raise them to also what they're exposed to outside of home. While I can't 100% control it, I can help it. If you're exposed to something every day for long-term, it because easy to think it's normal. You really have to challenge yourself to think otherwise. I think it's not just about your home life and how you raise your kids, but also what they are surrounded by/etc. There is a reason most kids who grow up in the project housing/ghettos often don't excel beyond that. It's usually a mix of a lack of strong parent figure AND their surroundings. While I think it's possible to do excel and thrive on your own regardless of surroundings, it certainly requires much introspect and thought, and perhaps not something every child will do.

Btw, I enjoyed reading about your experience in school.

@SelfReflector - I found your post truly useful and meaningful, since you are someone who already went through a similar experience that I will. It helps to follow your steps and thought process. I think if you read want I wrote to @Skidamarink, we are completely on the same page about establishing your child's norms. I agree it's not just about home life and how your aise your kids, but also what they are surrounded by/who they are friends with. It's hard when your social group comprises of billionaires/etc. Like, they are just going to be immersed in that and influenced by them in some respect. When you're young, it really is easy to be lost in your own world. I'm young myself, 24. So recently escaping that high school word (6 years ago is still recent, I think), I can remember still what it's like. School k-12 is like a bubble.

Drugs is another thing I'm very concerned with. In my HS, while no one was a billionaire, almost everyone was a multimillionaire. Of the class, about 70% cared about school/education. Of that 70%, 40% were probably "academically elite," in average people's terms--but just "mediocre" for garnering acceptance into top 20 schools. Those capable and able to take 9-12 AP's by graduation with weighted GPA's of over 4.2 were probably 10-15%. The other 30% of non-academically focused kids were the partiers who, while none were really druggies (I'll define this by saying: need drugs to function, only think about drugs), they recreationally did drugs regularly enough (almost every weekend). 30% is a significant percentage, but it's nowhere near the #'s from magnet school. It's very hard to find a balance... No one every did drugs or had marijuana at HS, we had like 10 security guards and locker raids/etc. The worst thing that happened was someone put poop in another person's locker (no idea why) and released lady bugs and crawfish in school (stupid, no idea why, they had to pay a $10-20,000 extermination fee). On the other hand in middle school, we've been locked in classrooms to avoid brawls/"rumbles" and where there was weed at school/etc. It's just a preview of what the lead-up HS was like (also known for a strong magnet program revolving around the IB program).

Magnet school was a very interesting and valuable experience to say nonetheless... don't think I'd want my kids in that environment ALL K-12, but maybe for middle school. I am considering sending them to a magnet school/school like that for middle school, not sure if Seattle has anything like it, though. Interestingly enough (and I mentioned this because I'm not sure if your kids are in HS yet), there was a significantly larger and more emphasized drug culture at the very, very mixed-income schools. The magnet school fed into another high school. It was basically a larger smorgasbord of middle school with drugs packed in. The high school had a special and strong IB Program attracting some intelligent students, but they had a lower graduation rate, lower % of students who cared about school, lower % of students who went to top 20 schools than my zoned HS, but more of those gifted students who had "tried" drugs, because they were more easily available/at school/seemed normal. All in all, it's hard to find something inbetween the two or a fine balance... It seems like you really tried and found a decent way to achieve it, though

On a side note, I think many people on this forum wondered why I sought others' opinions and why I don't just seek those in my circle. The point is, I don't want my kids to be like those in my circle or perhaps even like the said person lol. I find a range of opinions from these forums very useful and good for not only giving a new perspective or brainstorming opinions of important variables, but also grounding. Some certainly seem to have a similar background, while some don't, or some are inbetween. It's all useful to me and the beauty of communication Thanks, SelfReflector for sharing!

[BellevueNative]

Originally Posted by soci3tycat

@RVD
I'm not sure if people can/will understand what I am saying unless they have experienced/known many others who attended exclusive prep schools like Harvard-Westlike, the Kate School, Philips Exeter, Andover, Chote, Milton, Deerfield, the Bollittierri School, etc. No, I'm not name-dropping. These schools have an culture worth noting/exactly what I'm talking about/where a significant # of my peers went.

First, your kids will not go to school with kids of billionaires in the public school system. Seattle has few billionaires to begin with, and any that we do have will send their kids to private schools due to security reasons more than anything. So stop worrying about that.

Second, Washington state, and most of the west coast, has nothing like the schools you listed above. Even Cate, H-W (which is quite different from Cate) and another one in California are unlike any of the New England boarding schools. Annie Wright in Tacoma is the only boarding school in Washington state, and it is not even trying to be the pompous school the east coast schools are.

[soci3tycat]

Originally Posted by BellevueNative

First, your kids will not go to school with kids of billionaires in the public school system. Seattle has few billionaires to begin with, and any that we do have will send their kids to private schools due to security reasons more than anything. So stop worrying about that.

Second, Washington state, and most of the west coast, has nothing like the schools you listed above. Even Cate, H-W (which is quite different from Cate) and another one in California are unlike any of the New England boarding schools. Annie Wright in Tacoma is the only boarding school in Washington state, and it is not even trying to be the pompous school the east coast schools are.

Good to know!

[SouthSeasLifestyler]

Wow, it really is a different world *eyes boggling*

I think if the schools are even a bit like what soci3tycat describes where she's from, I would homeschool all the way through high school! Frightening. I'm very glad BellevueNative has pointed out it isn't so in the Washington State public schools.

Growing up my parents gave us three rules: no drugs. don't lie. be good to your siblings. Okay, I did lie sometimes, but they had so few rules, I felt it was the least I could do to fulfil the other two. But I think it depends on your peer group (very low drug usage, if any) and in a situation where there are drugs, strength of character to say no.

SSLifestyler

[BellevueNative]

There is going to be some drug and alcohol use in practically any high school (and in some middle schools). That is what kids do... test the boundaries and experiment. In places where they have more spending money, it's going to be a little bit more prevalent. But it's more of a partying/weekend thing. Best you can do is teach your kid to be smart about it if they do engage, and never drive drunk/high. I'd be more worried about sexual activity among middle schoolers/high schoolers.