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It's interesting (telling?) how this thread morphed from "hostile to educated newcomers" to "you have to be upper-class elite to fit in". It seems Santa Fe has a split personality. What it points out is that yes, there is a pronounced income disparity in Santa Fe. Different newcomers can be sensitive to one side or the other of the divide. Yes, there are old-timers who resent the newcomers and the changes that new money has brought in, and some newcomers are uncomfortable with the undercurrent of resentment. And there are some newcomers who perceive the influence of the elite class that has established itself here and are uncomfortable with that. But I think most people in the middle manage to sidestep these tensions and get along just fine.
I don't know how JuniperRidge1 manages to pull Albuquerque into this, which I never before have heard described as elitist. Albuquerque is usually known for its lack of pretense. Because of Albuquerque's size, the few wealthy folks who live there do not stand out. Santa Fe is much smaller, yet has more ostentatious wealth than Albuquerque, a reputation as a Beverly Hills of the Southwest, with high-end enclaves scattered around including Las Campanas with its $90,000 golf course memberships and other excesses of the 1% that are not even dreamed of in Albuquerque. And those elements I do find offensive too, if I think about them, but I'm usually too busy enjoying Santa Fe's restaurants, atmosphere, culture, and nature to notice.
I don't deny or ignore that divisions and tensions do exist, but there is also a lot of overlap and hybridizing of cultures and ethnicities, a cross-section which I believe contains the majority of Santa Feans and is a space that is very rewarding to be part of.
It's interesting (telling?) how this thread morphed from "hostile to educated newcomers" to "you have to be upper-class elite to fit in". It seems Santa Fe has a split personality. What it points out is that yes, there is a pronounced income disparity in Santa Fe. Different newcomers can be sensitive to one side or the other of the divide. Yes, there are old-timers who resent the newcomers and the changes that new money has brought in, and some newcomers are uncomfortable with the undercurrent of resentment. And there are some newcomers who perceive the influence of the elite class that has established itself here and are uncomfortable with that.
Response - Thanks and I'll add a few final comments. Yes I was uncomfortable with the Rich, Elite, (Caucasian), Creative, Class who runs Santa Fe real estate, ULTRA - liberal politics, and social engineering (i.e. the so-called trustafarian activist types). This elite group is resented by newcomers seeking to make a living and ALSO by the old-timers.
When moving to the area (to a hotel), I vividly recall the cleaning lady who only received $7 in minimum wage and could not speak English. I felt sorry for her and her family. On the West Coast she would be receiving much more. New Mexico (and also Arizona) have a long way to go in terms of closing the income gap between the Rich Caucasian Elites and the old timers in the service occupations. Although, NM and Santa Fe have raised the minimum wage since then.
But I think most people in the middle manage to sidestep these tensions and get along just fine.
Response - Not necessarily, if the politics of the shopkeeper looking for employees are looking exclusively for their own - i.e. with wearing all black with earrings and tattoos (peer pressure).
I don't know how JuniperRidge1 manages to pull Albuquerque into this, which I never before have heard described as elitist. Albuquerque is usually known for its lack of pretense. Because of Albuquerque's size, the few wealthy folks who live there do not stand out.
Response - I agree with you except that I was living in the UNM / Nob Hill area. Later, I was told by a blue collar employer that Nob Hill is known as "SNOB HILL." And, a Native American who owns a gift shop in NE Arizona tole me that when he was an UNM student, his neighbors were "very unfriendly" and ignored him, until the day that he moved out on graduation.
I asked him for his best recommendation of a "friendly city with young people." His answer was Sedona. And, with that recommendation that I agree with, I'll close this subject.
I will cross Santa Fe and the UNM/Nob Hill area off the list, as possible place to return to - If I come back then the NW / Rio Rancho should be OK.
You also wrote this about Santa Fe and I would ad that Scottsdale (which is also perceived as unfriendly, like Santa Fe is to some) meets the same description with its resorts:
Santa Fe is much smaller, yet has more ostentatious wealth than Albuquerque, a reputation as a Beverly Hills of the Southwest, with high-end enclaves scattered around including Las Campanas with its $90,000 golf course memberships and other excesses of the 1% that are not even dreamed of in Albuquerque. And those elements I do find offensive too, if I think about them, but I'm usually too busy enjoying Santa Fe's restaurants, atmosphere, culture, and nature to notice.
I don't deny or ignore that divisions and tensions do exist, but there is also a lot of overlap and hybridizing of cultures and ethnicities, a cross-section which I believe contains the majority of Santa Feans and is a space that is very rewarding to be part of. (-Aries65)
Last edited by JuniperRidge1; 02-12-2012 at 01:49 AM..
Reason: Responses -
Different newcomers can be sensitive to one side or the other of the divide. ...
Response - Thanks...
When moving to
I agree with you except that I was living in the UNM / Nob Hill area. Later, I was told by a blue collar employer that Nob Hill is known as "SNOB HILL."
section which I believe contains the majority of Santa Feans and is a space that is very rewarding to be part of. (-Aries65)
We have a quote function which works well and for many easier to read and understand than black, bold, blue and RoyalBlue.
JuniperRidge1, it's time for a reality check. Your assertions don't hold water.
First, finding a non-English-speaking housekeeper in a hotel making minimum wage is commonplace throughout the US, I don't see how you can allow that to prejudice your view of Santa Fe. Even less so when you consider that in March the minimum wage in Santa Fe will rise to $10.32/hour, the highest minimum wage in the country. So your argument here falls flat.
Then, claiming that Sedona is "less elite" than Santa Fe or Albuquerque, that Native Americans and Hispanics are treated better in Sedona, and that Sedona has more youth culture are all refuted by statistics:
Sedona's per capita income is by far the highest of the three cities by more than $10,000:
Sedona: $42,380
Santa Fe: $29,669
Albuquerque: $24,597
Median age in Sedona also the highest, higher than Santa Fe's by more than 10 years:
Sedona: 50.5
Santa Fe: 39.8
Albuquerque: 34.9
Native American and Hispanic populations much smaller in Sedona. Sedona is mostly white people by a large margin:
Sedona white alone: 82%
Hispanic: 13%
Native American: 0.4%
Santa Fe white alone: 47%
Hispanic: 48%
Native American: 1.5%
Albuquerque white alone: 43%
Hispanic: 45 %
Native American: 4.4%
So I don't know where you get your ideas unless you had blinders on while you were in New Mexico and only saw what you wanted to see. I'm sorry you had a bad experience. But I don't think you can criticize Santa Fe and Albuquerque the way you do while comparing Sedona favorably using your criteria, the facts just don't add up. Sedona is primarily a city of rich, old, white people. Santa Fe and Albuquerque are not, and are more diverse by far than Sedona.
Above I said I would not say anything else however due to your various statements I will clarify my positions as follows:
1. Many years ago the Highly Educated Caucasian Liberal Elite in Santa Fe and "(S)nob" Hill were not interested in me in a Caucasian applicant ... and they apparently wanted to hire people in the upper classes. I am middle class, not upper class. Therefore, I can see why some Hispanics resent the elite rich taking over Santa Fe (as you stated above).
I also said that $7 an hour is too low for a housekeeper at a major hotel in Albuquerque. However since then I believe that state has raised the minimum wage. The minimum wage, however, is much higher in California.
Finally the percentages of various ethnicities to me are irrelevant. They may be different between the various cities, but that's not the issue. The issue is how different "classes" get along, and whether the minimum wage is high enough. Clearly the highly educated liberal elite class in Santa Fe doesn't like Middle Class more modest and moderate folks, especially middle class Caucasians just moving to town. This isn't true in Albuquerque, except in the UNM / Nob Hill area where the Caucasian locals didn't like the Arizona Native American UNM student who I mentioned.
Therefore, one must learn to understand these issues if they are among the very rich in Santa Fe - otherwise they are best suited to Albuquerque where there is less income polarization. If you are from a large big metro on the east or west coasts, then you know what I am referring to in rich Santa Fe, since there is high diversity on the coasts, and everyone gets along.
Juniper, I've lived on both coasts and many other places. I can't imagine what reality you live in where "everybody gets along". It does not exist, racism, elitist mentalities, social divides, sexism, and all the other dirty prejudices are alive and well all over the country.
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniperRidge1
Above I said I would not say anything else however due to your various statements I will clarify my positions as follows:
1. Many years ago the Highly Educated Caucasian Liberal Elite in Santa Fe and "(S)nob" Hill were not interested in me in a Caucasian applicant ... and they apparently wanted to hire people in the upper classes. I am middle class, not upper class. Therefore, I can see why some Hispanics resent the elite rich taking over Santa Fe (as you stated above).
I also said that $7 an hour is too low for a housekeeper at a major hotel in Albuquerque. However since then I believe that state has raised the minimum wage. The minimum wage, however, is much higher in California.
Finally the percentages of various ethnicities to me are irrelevant. They may be different between the various cities, but that's not the issue. The issue is how different "classes" get along, and whether the minimum wage is high enough. Clearly the highly educated liberal elite class in Santa Fe doesn't like Middle Class more modest and moderate folks, especially middle class Caucasians just moving to town. This isn't true in Albuquerque, except in the UNM / Nob Hill area where the Caucasian locals didn't like the Arizona Native American UNM student who I mentioned.
Therefore, one must learn to understand these issues if they are among the very rich in Santa Fe - otherwise they are best suited to Albuquerque where there is less income polarization. If you are from a large big metro on the east or west coasts, then you know what I am referring to in rich Santa Fe, since there is high diversity on the coasts, and everyone gets along.
It really sounds like you're looking for a scapegoat more than anything. You're painting a broad brush stroke and calculating a black and white social dichotomy in Santa Fe. Your remarks are what is truely polarizing, not the city of Santa Fe.
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