Another "moving to SF" thread - 2 kids & a dog (San Francisco: real estate, to rent)

[DC area refugee]

Hello,

I just found I may be moving to SF this summer and am trying to decode the housing market.

I'm married w/ two kids (9 and 12), plus a dog and a cat. I'll be working very close to the civic center BART station.

My priorities are:
1. Good schools (elementary through high school)
2. Safe
3. Reasonable commute (pref via bike and/or mass transit)
4. Near greenspace (room to run around, ride bikes, throw a ball)
5. "close enough" to culture and city offerings (theater, sports, art, etc.)

We live in DC-area suburbia now but wouldn't mind a change. A higher density, but nice, neighborhood with walking access to shops, restaurants, and a park would be ideal. We'd be moving for my job, but my wife would probably be looking for a job at one of the local universities once we settle in.

Haven't decided on rent vs. buy. If renting, we'd be looking at a budget in the $3000/mo range. If buying, we could probably go up to $600K. If we had to, we could go a little higher ($4k/mo & $700K is probably the absolute ceiling).

Any thoughts on where I should be looking?

Thanks in advance - I have been impressed with the patience of the answerers on this board for similar questions (but with different particulars) over and over.

Bonus question - anything else about SF I should know?

[mdwstrnkid]

Given your priorities, I don't think that SF proper will be the best option for you, given your desire to have good schools, K-12. However, you would have a number of options commuting by BART. What is a "reasonable" commute for you?

[DC area refugee]

It looks like I can BART to civic center in 30 min or so from anywhere. As long as I could bike to a BART station in 5-10 min, my total commute should be less than 45 min. Ideally, I'd look for a 30 min or less commute, but up to an hour is survivable (and close to what I have now in DC).

What about the Richmond area (in SF)? No idea what the schools are like, but there seem to be a fair amount of 3 BR condos/THs in the 600-700 range there. I could bike to work in 5 minutes, and walk to the presidio or golden gate park in no time. Bad schools? Unsafe?

Thanks!

[mayorhaggar]

SF still has a kind of lottery system so you wouldn't have any guarantee that your kids wouldn't be sent to a crappy school. SF schools are notorious for driving young families with kids into the burbs because they get assigned to bad schools. There are a few good schools in SF but most of them are bad and again it's a roll of the dice to see which ones you get into, even if you live two blocks from the best school in the city.

Plus the Richmond District in SF is pretty far from Civic Center, believe me, it would be probably a 30 to 45 minute bike ride, and about 30 to 45 minutes on public transit depending on how far west you are. Unless you are on BART public transit here is pretty pokey.

I would look at the towns of Albany and Alameda if you want good schools and a somewhat dense area. Walnut Creek or Pleasant Hill if you are ok with more suburban, but Walnut Creek has a big outdoor mall in its downtown that you might like. Lafayette or Orinda if you want BART access but to live in rolling hills, both have small downtowns near the BART stations too.

[mdwstrnkid]

Originally Posted by DC area refugee

It looks like I can BART to civic center in 30 min or so from anywhere. As long as I could bike to a BART station in 5-10 min, my total commute should be less than 45 min. Ideally, I'd look for a 30 min or less commute, but up to an hour is survivable (and close to what I have now in DC).

What about the Richmond area (in SF)? No idea what the schools are like, but there seem to be a fair amount of 3 BR condos/THs in the 600-700 range there. I could bike to work in 5 minutes, and walk to the presidio or golden gate park in no time. Bad schools? Unsafe?

Thanks!

Note that you can't take bikes on BART to Civic Center station during commute hours (unless you have a folding bike). Also, BART does not run anywhere close to the Richmond (in fact, Civic Center might be the closest station to the Richmond District).

I'm not sure where you found your info, but there is no way that you can bike from the Richmond District to Civic Center in 5 minutes. You would have to cover at least three miles (likely more if you are coming from Outer Richmond) so I would guess that at minimum, you are looking at 20 minutes each way.

[beb0p]

In SF, parents send their kids to private schools. Public schools are notoriously bad, especially high schools. A few good elementary schools, but that's basically it. With that said, the public schools in the Richmond (and Sunset) area are probably the least bad (their HS got respectable 7/10 ratings if I remember correctly). So if you must live in SF and you must attend public, live in Richmond (or Sunset). Richmond is very safe, I personally consider it the safest part of SF. But expect a 30-45 mins bike ride to Civic Center and equivalent 30-45 mins commute via public transit.

I suggest you look into Piedmont, Orinda, Lafayette and Walnut Creek in the east bay. They have award winning public schools and are about 30-45 mins BART from SF.

In the Peninsula, Milbrae also has good schools and a BART station.
Otherwise, the Marin County across from the Golden Gate Bridge also have very good schools but BART doesn't go there.

Now, if you're willing to send your kids to private schools then all bets are off.

With a dog, it will not be easy to rent. Many landlords are anti-pets.

[mayorhaggar]

Also you're not going to want to bike to work unless there's somewhere secure you can keep your bike at all day while you're at work. If you lock it up on the street it will be gone in 5 minutes. The city is supposed to be setting up more bike parking but it takes forever for the city to get anything done around here.

[twins4lynn]

Originally Posted by DC area refugee

It looks like I can BART to civic center in 30 min or so from anywhere. As long as I could bike to a BART station in 5-10 min, my total commute should be less than 45 min. Ideally, I'd look for a 30 min or less commute, but up to an hour is survivable (and close to what I have now in DC).

What about the Richmond area (in SF)? No idea what the schools are like, but there seem to be a fair amount of 3 BR condos/THs in the 600-700 range there. I could bike to work in 5 minutes, and walk to the presidio or golden gate park in no time. Bad schools? Unsafe?Thanks!

You need to read the school enrollment information on the SF Unified School District website SFUSD: Home to get the complete picture on their NEW placement policy for school assignment, as well as read their enrollment guide http://www.sfusd.edu/en/assets/sfusd...%20English.pdf. They changed their previous more simple "lottery" system to a more complicated (imo) method-which involves various steps and tie-breakers (lottery). SF does have some good schools, if you want to give the system a try (but being new to SF and having missed the enrollment period for next year already, the good schools will probably be out of reach....), or you can go private or move to the burbs (like the rest of us).

[jade408]

Piedmont would probably be pretty great for you. It is a little bit far from BART (about 2-4 miles depending on what part you live in -- you wouldn't want to get too deep into Piedmont because you would have a very steep hill(s) to bike up -- 20-30% incline for at least 3/4 of a mile -- I have only walked up that distance on the hill and it keeps getting higher after that. If you live below 24 in Piedmont, and closer to Oakland Ave you'll be closest to all of the buses that go to BART. It is about a 10-15 minute bus ride to BART from Piedmont. Other than that there a good schools, a goos amount of parks, and you are close to lots of great Oakland shopping districts: Piedmont Ave, Grand/Lakeshore and Montclair depending on what part you live in. The "lower" parts of Piedmont are more walkable than the "higher parts." (I live about 3 blocks from the city of Piedmont, it is about 99% residential and surrounded by nice areas of Oakland on all sides.)

Albany and Alameda are good, but Alameda is a bit far from BART. Albany would be a better fit because of the BART proximity.

[California Vagabond]

I don't know if it's a factor for you, but San Francisco may be a better real estate investment than a home buy in outlying areas. I also fret about earthquake risks in the near East Bay. The Hayward Fault is very close by, and much of the territory there is subject to liquefaction. (You can download maps for the free Google Earth program that show this, at Liquefaction Susceptibility . Please note that plenty of areas in S.F. are liquefaction risks, too, as the maps will show you.)

It might be too downscale for you, but parts of Sunnyside, Portola , Excelsior and Visitacion Valley feel quite family friendly, and houses in these areas are relatively affordable. Portions of the Excelsior abut McLaren Park, which is much, much nicer than its reputation. A combination of rail and bus transit can get you downtown for your work, though I think you'll be happier in this regard if you're close to a BART station.

On the downside, the neighborhoods I just named don't really *feel* as San Franciscan as parts farther north. (And I hope that doesn't get me any hate mail from someone living in Vis Valley!)