SBOE wants to Eliminate Heroic from Description of Alamo Defenders (San Antonio: credit, school)

[WilGar]

Originally Posted by TexasRedneck

Big difference......

Very big difference.

Wasteland bad choice of words.

Unsettled with large expanses of untouched land

Mexico wanted this land settled to buffer Mexico from the Indians.

[huckster]

But of course. Jackson sent people here to assist in Texas independence.Texas Rangers were also given land script in place of wages.
There were people of all sort in San Antonio. However the effort for Texas Independence would never have succeeded without Tejano assistance. The goal of many,many Tejanos was Texas independence. Paralleling the Yanks exactly.

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

Not wages in this case but personal gain. Land.

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by TexasRedneck

Big difference......

But still mercenary—private military bands fighting in a foreign country for personal gain. If these fellas were doing the right thing what do their motives matter?

[WilGar]

If the promise of land in return for cultivating it and establish civilization, then, yes, my family were settlers or pioneers.

Did they band together to form small groups of defenders to fend off the indians, yes.

Were they of the same heritage and ethnic backgrounds, yes.

[huckster]

What happened then? These things you write of has happened many times to many peoples. There is nothing unique about warfare. It was a part of living. Primitive? Yes.
There is nothing unique about settling land or stealing it either. As people spread across this earth , scrambling for possession, many died. Many have fought and died right here, on this very spot, died here for untold thousands of years.
People still die every day in wars over land. The first that comes to mind is the battle over the Gaza Strip.
U.S. backed Israel does harm everyday to Palestine. The same Heritage all have but religious differences keep land theft at an extremely high rate.

For the water from the springs here. From a common heritage and ethnic background. UTSA has found proof of human habitation in the Olmos Creek area for 11,000 years, past. Pottery fragments, stone arrowheads and of course burnt bones from fire places. I myself discovered the tooth of a Mastodon in Culebra Creek. Still have it too. I was in there hiking when I observed something of a sheer white color gleaming in the sun in the clay bank and it was the tooth. I giant one.
The Brits were still dancing naked around Stonehenge back then. The same heritage and background alright. The Aztecs were performing human sacrifice.
The pyramids of the Egyptians were still 6,000 years away. They cultivated land there with Nile River Water.
So did the first Spanish Monks in San Antonio irrigate with spring water and probably the first cowboys ever in north America were Indians riding herd on Spanish cow herds around, the Alamo. Some of those irrigations canals -still in use. The same heritage and background Alright.

Originally Posted by WilGar

If the promise of land in return for cultivating it and establish civilization, then, yes, my family were settlers or pioneers.

Did they band together to form small groups of defenders to fend off the indians, yes.

Were they of the same heritage and ethnic backgrounds, yes.

[TexasRedneck]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

But still mercenary—private military bands fighting in a foreign country for personal gain. If these fellas were doing the right thing what do their motives matter?

In your example then, everyone's a mercenary - because even todays' soldiers are paid for their service. So I'm going to just accept that you have a twisted view of history. My g-g grandfather is buried in McQueeney. His gravestone is marked - both as a Methodist Circuit Rider and a member of the Texas Rangers. He was - and his descendants are - proud of his service - to both the souls and the lives of the citizens of this state. He was one of the founders of the Little Church of La Villita, alongside Rev. J.W. De Vilbiss - as well as what eventually became Travis Park Methodist Church.

Mercenary? No, I don't think so....

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by TexasRedneck

In your example then, everyone's a mercenary - because even todays' soldiers are paid for their service...

Not every soldier is a mercenary but those in private companies are. Those who fight in foreign service are. The New Orleans Greys and Alabama Red Rovers met both those conditions. Words have meanings. Don’t fret, you may honor mercenaries; after all, we honor von Steuben.

That you hesitate to come to grips with some realities of Texas history and seek to apply political correctness to the actions of the past is regrettable but natural enough.

[TexasRedneck]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

Not every soldier is a mercenary but those in private companies are. Those who fight in foreign service are. The New Orleans Greys and Alabama Red Rovers met both those conditions. Words have meanings. Don’t fret, you may honor mercenaries; after all, we honor von Steuben.

That you hesitate to come to grips with some realities of Texas history and seek to apply political correctness to the actions of the past is regrettable but natural enough.

You obviously have an axe go grind, along with an agenda. My mother always taught me that some folks just aren't worth it....she was right. Obviously, you have appointed yourself the determiner of motivations and names - have at it. Just don't expect me to buy into it, because many of those that came to Texas to serve STAYED in Texas and helped settle it.

Bless your heart.

[WilGar]

Originally Posted by TexasRedneck

You obviously have an axe go grind, along with an agenda. My mother always taught me that some folks just aren't worth it....she was right. Obviously, you have appointed yourself the determiner of motivations and names - have at it. Just don't expect me to buy into it, because many of those that came to Texas to serve STAYED in Texas and helped settle it.

Bless your heart.

Your Mother was right.

Old bumper sticker,

"Never ask a man where he is from.

If he is from Texas he will admit it.

If not, don't embarrass him.

[huckster]

Nah , nah. I disagree with y'all vehemently. Well as vehemently as I can electronically and as vehemently
as Bo and them will let me be.
There ain't nothing wrong with Old Irish Tom I say. I would defend unto the death. Just kidding.
No he comes from the north and like many yanks is a good hearted soul but tells it like it is and
locals do not like the so called Texas mystique trampled all over with such great gusto.
Did you not read where he likes and is a southsider, how everyone is approachable and friendly?
Likes San Antonio? A great vibe it has? He loves it here.
I am a local too, do not forget. This is what is and unless you guys can come here with a concrete counter-
argument with facts, bristling with facts, to defend or prove wrong Irish Tom's assertions; this is what is and what happened. Irish seems to have done some research as only an outsider who is enthusiastic about our local history would do. Exemplary of this is Phil Collins, from England, but bought into the entire coon skin cap- Disney Davy Crockett thing as a child in Britain. Fascination ensued in little Phil Collins and it had nothing to do with the daughters of the Republic.

The guy accumulated so many Alamo artifacts, well you know the story. I believe he had bought Davy's authentic coonskin hat even. This Collins guy is so rich, I had no idea until his huge donation was made. A great,great gift from the Brit.
Anyway this rock star-historian has put" Change in the air tonight" ( no pun intended) so to speak,for San Antonio. With this what is to me a great change- in downtown will take place. A true representation, of things as they once were here so long ago, this will be. This is the biggest thing since Hemisfair and will add to the city coffers as Hemisfair did. I know , I know. It will change downtown and all will want to see the completely restored Alamo.
That surely was a great, great song by Phil Collins the Brit. Fantastic really.

Texas history books have more misinformation about Texas history than does Disney. In fact we are notorious for it in national book circles. Arizona is the same way, but they are changing the books the kids in Arizona read in school to be more factual concerning ethnicity in particular. To the great dismay of conservative Arizonians there too.
They will be more representative of the truth now. Really.