Loop 1604 TXDOT Meeting tonight (San Antonio, Austin: transplants, home, construction)

[mimimomx3]

On the other hand, you can't make soccer mom X stop driving her Escalade solo if she doesn't want to. You can't force anyone to carpool if they don't want to. You can only anticipate and respond to what they will do.


Well, I think that you can't MAKE soccer mom/dad X drive in a carpool, but you can make them annoyed as hell to sit in traffic as the carpoolers whiz by her. But you're assuming that the goal of the TXDOT is to encourage carpooling...it ISNT. Their goal, in my view, it to clean our wallets out.

[Turtle_Mom]

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

On the other hand, you can't make soccer mom X stop driving her Escalade solo if she doesn't want to. You can't force anyone to carpool if they don't want to. You can only anticipate and respond to what they will do.


Well, I think that you can't MAKE soccer mom/dad X drive in a carpool, but you can make them annoyed as hell to sit in traffic as the carpoolers whiz by her. But you're assuming that the goal of the TXDOT is to encourage carpooling...it ISNT. Their goal, in my view, it to clean our wallets out.

We seem to be on the same page mimimomx3 And posting at the same time!

[oldmanshirt]

Originally Posted by Turtle_Mom

So now the people who live outside 1604 are to blame? Like the city planners didn't see this growth coming? Those people chose the area to live for a variety of reasons (hills, trees, quality of life, away from the city, school districts, future golf course, commute time, etc.) but the developers are the ones who planned for the subdivisions and shopping areas. The growth has been planned and expected for many years, the DOT knew what to expect and should have been better prepared.

Now that the South Side is growing with Toyota and all that, they should start NOW to prepare for that growth and getting the roads ahead of the game so we don't have this issue all over the city. Toll roads all over the 281 or 1604 will just cause more congestion on the surface streets, I-10 and 410.

I didn't say anyone is to blame. As my post suggests, you can't make people do anything/live anywhere if they don't want to. You can only respond to what exists. The reality is that many people do live outside 1604, so what are you going to do about the problems that presents?

[Turtle_Mom]

Originally Posted by oldmanshirt

I didn't say anyone is to blame. As my post suggests, you can't make people do anything/live anywhere if they don't want to. You can only respond to what exists. The reality is that many people do live outside 1604, so what are you going to do about the problems that presents?

I guess I don't see it as a problem. The North side is growing a terrific rate, and the fact that the PGA chose the area for one of their Villages shows that the area has many benefits. (And yes - as you can see by my profile, I do live here too.) The city will benefit greatly from the business brought to the North Side - La Cantera, Shops at Stone Oak, Forum shops, PGA Village etc. The problems are the traffic obviously - and I guess looking at this retrospectively, things like toll roads might help temporarily. But in the time it would take to construct a toll road, can't they just construct larger freeways with good interchanges and the HOV lane?

How do you pay for it? Those retail and housing developers. They know that North of 1604 is prime real estate, but if traffic and toll roads become an issue then people might look elsewhere. There are those who don't care about the tolls, they look on them as a sign of "exclusive areas" and don't mind paying the extra to cut the number of people that drive on their roads. I do like the idea of building the freeways with Tolls and then removing them when the roads are paid for, but does anyone know of a city that has actually removed a Toll Road?

But somehow, we pay for it I guess. If the developers pay, then they put that price back into their housing or retail. We all end up paying in the long run. If we increase taxes to pay for the roads, we still pay. Toll roads are just a more noticeable and instantaneous gap in our wallet.

[Jimbo713]

Does anybody have a link to the TXDot video shown last night?

I've got to say, based on what I hear at the title company, the traffic situation is growing so untenable on the 281 corridor that people are telling their Realtors flat out that they will NOT look at Stone Oak and points north. I've also recently had a spate of closings where sellers are getting the hell out of the area because they feel that by living in Encino or Summerglen they are dooming themselves and their children to a life spent in the car. I did a closing yesterday where the sellers gleefully told me how much time they were shaving off their driving each day by moving out of Mountain Lodge and into Oakwell Farms. I forsee this happening more and more, as more rooftops go up north of 1604 and gas prices inch higher. It is going to be painful in the short run, but in the long run I think a mix of toll lanes, HOV lanes and other efforts is going to be needed, or otherwise it's all just going to become nothing but a morass of gridlock and exhaust fumes.

[oldmanshirt]

Originally Posted by Jimbo713

Does anybody have a link to the TXDot video shown last night?

If you mean the conceptual video of what the completed freeway will look like, then Google and YouTube searches turned up nothing.

Just imagine the Katy freeway combined with the new I-635/North freeway interchange in North Dallas, and then add more ramps. . . that'll give you some idea

[CreekKnoll]

Did they give estimates as to how much money the tolls would generate? And say years down the road tolling has made enough money to have paid for this project. Would they shut the tolls down, or use them to fund further project?

I guess when growth surpasses the propose/approve/implement process, we need quicker ways to fund and build roads.

[Jimbo713]

Has anyone heard when they expect this massive project to be completed?

[winst0n]

simple, if you don't want to be double taxed, don't use the toll roads. period!
we need new lanes for 281 north and we need it soon. HOV lane is good but how can u make an HOV lane if there are only 2 lanes in 281 norht?

i read somewhere its 50 years to pay for the toll.... you see its the next generation who will benefit from this when the roads are finally paid off.. don't be selfish and inconsiderate, pay now for the toll road for your children's children sake!!!

too much talk, we need action... construct the roads NOW!!!