Holladay vs E Millcreek (Provo, Sandy: sale, real estate, houses)

[kletter1mann]

Looks like our house sale horror show has finally come to an end and we'll be out there soon. Househunting has therefore moved from hypothetical to real. Just in time for the ski season, too.

For a variety of reasons we've pretty much settled on the east bench north of 4500S, i.e., Holladay, East Millcreek and Foothill. Maybe Sugarhouse too. So here's the question: how different do these areas actually feel, based on the prevailing political/religious ethos, education levels and general socioeconomics?

We don't care about schools, inversions or snow. We also don't care about ethnic diversity (or lack thereof, if we were we wouldn't be looking at UT in the first place). What we do not want is a high risk of an overwhelmingly LDS (1) neighborhood or overwhelmingly right wing views. The key word here is "overwhelmingly." Our impression is that all these places would be fine, they aren't Provo after all, but any comments would be welcome.

(1) Nothing against LDS, just don't want to reduce the odds of being surrounded by any mono-culture. That would include Irish, Italian, WASPs, Mexican, Jewish or whatever. In NY it is very easy to identify specific neighborhoods that are overwhelmingly one group or another. Many people actively seek such places. We do not.

[CCSLC]

They would all be fine, none are overwhelmingly LDS. Education levels are similar in all, as are socioeconomic...though the west end of Sugar House is lower income than the others, but still higher than much of the valley.

I do find a marked difference in political leanings between Sugar House/Foothill (more liberal, even if LDS) and Holladay/East Millcreek (more conservative) though.

[kletter1mann]

Originally Posted by CCSLC

They would all be fine, none are overwhelmingly LDS. Education levels are similar in all, as are socioeconomic...though the west end of Sugar House is lower income than the others, but still higher than much of the valley.

I do find a marked difference in political leanings between Sugar House/Foothill (more liberal, even if LDS) and Holladay/East Millcreek (more conservative) though.

Great, thanks. Can you elaborate a little? A marked difference is, well, quite marked. How does that play out?

Along the same lines, it has been widely reported on this board that LDSness (and presumably conservatism I guess) increases with the distance from Sugarhouse/SLC. Is it fair to say then that Cottonwood Hts would trend a notch more conservative than Millcreek and Sandy a bit more then Cottonwood Hts?

[CCSLC]

Originally Posted by kletter1mann

Great, thanks. Can you elaborate a little? A marked difference is, well, quite marked. How does that play out?

Along the same lines, it has been widely reported on this board that LDSness (and presumably conservatism I guess) increases with the distance from Sugarhouse/SLC. Is it fair to say then that Cottonwood Hts would trend a notch more conservative than Millcreek and Sandy a bit more then Cottonwood Hts?

I notice it most during election season, obviously. Driving through the neighborhoods, the campaign signs are more consistently Republican once you're south of 2700 South or 3300 South. I guess that's the "marked" difference I was thinking of.

And while conservatism does generally increase as distance from SLC proper increases, I consider Cottonwood Heights a little less LDS/conservative (and I do know that the two are not necessarily linked) than both Millcreek and Sandy, I think because it attracts so many out-of-state outdoor enthusiasts because of the proximity to the Cottonwood canyons. But Sandy is most definitely more conservative than Millcreek Township.

[SWFL_Native]

In order of desirability I'd go Cottonwood Heights > Mount Olympus Cove > Holladay > Sugarhouse > E Millcreek > Sandy > Draper.

I'd also put 84102, 84103, 84108 in your search criteria as well. 84098 would be great as well if you could swing Jeremy Ranch, Summit Park, or Pinebrook. The commute typically is decent via 80 and a great place to live up there you if can afford it.

84010 & 84054 are extremely LDS but they also offer the best value in terms of proximity to downtown SLC and the quality of house you get for your $$$. Prepare to be underwhelmed for what you get for your money in the top areas.

[kletter1mann]

Originally Posted by SWFL_Native

In order of desirability I'd go Cottonwood Heights > Mount Olympus Cove > Holladay > Sugarhouse > E Millcreek > Sandy > Draper.

I'd also put 84102, 84103, 84108 in your search criteria as well. 84098 would be great as well if you could swing Jeremy Ranch, Summit Park, or Pinebrook. The commute typically is decent via 80 and a great place to live up there you if can afford it.

84010 & 84054 are extremely LDS but they also offer the best value in terms of proximity to downtown SLC and the quality of house you get for your $$$. Prepare to be underwhelmed for what you get for your money in the top areas.

LOL, have you seen what you get for your $$ in NY? Fortunately we're downsizing dramatically, so this isn't an issue. E Millcreek/Holiday are an almost perfect logistical balance between downtown, LCC access, Momentum climbing gym and highway access in general. These are more important to us than maximizing house 'value' in terms of size of $/sq ft. Commuting doesn't matter either for that matter, we're retired.

[SWFL_Native]

Originally Posted by kletter1mann

LOL, have you seen what you get for your $$ in NY? Fortunately we're downsizing dramatically, so this isn't an issue. E Millcreek/Holiday are an almost perfect logistical balance between downtown, LCC access, Momentum climbing gym and highway access in general. These are more important to us than maximizing house 'value' in terms of size of $/sq ft. Commuting doesn't matter either for that matter, we're retired.

Yep I'm familiar with $$ in NY.. We lived in Saratoga Springs for 2 years and have family in NYC.

I strongly prefer Mount Olympus cove to most of Holladay and Millcreek. I still think you will find yourself underwhelmed with housing in general even coming from NY. You may get lucky and find a "flip" that has been completely redone.

[CCSLC]

I never consider a "flip" a good thing. The flippers are so eager to turn a profit quickly that material choice and build quality always suffer, and in 12-24 months you have to redo shoddy work that used the cheapest quality product available.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by kletter1mann

Along the same lines, it has been widely reported on this board that LDSness (and presumably conservatism I guess) increases with the distance from Sugarhouse/SLC. Is it fair to say then that Cottonwood Hts would trend a notch more conservative than Millcreek and Sandy a bit more then Cottonwood Hts?

Having lived in Cottonwood Heights for the past 33 years, I would definitely not consider Cottonwood Heights to be any more conservative the either Holladay or East Millcreek. The difference between any of the east-side neighborhoods is going to be negligible.

[kletter1mann]

Originally Posted by SWFL_Native

Yep I'm familiar with $$ in NY.. We lived in Saratoga Springs for 2 years and have family in NYC.

I strongly prefer Mount Olympus cove to most of Holladay and Millcreek. I still think you will find yourself underwhelmed with housing in general even coming from NY. You may get lucky and find a "flip" that has been completely redone.

That's true, and it's not just a question of cost. Even taking cost out of the equation, the suburban NY housing stock in mid-market and up-market areas seems better built (even if old or maybe because it's old), larger (below grade doesn't count, even if finished), better finished in general and far more attention to overall aesthetics in both the houses themselves and the overall community. How many UT towns ban chains and big boxes simply because they're unsightly and banal?

This obviously a generalization but think it holds. In fairness to SLC area, the same would apply to many or most of country. In the NY area the problems people experience are the real estate taxes and how little they get for their $$ compared to elsewhere.