Air Quality/Inversions (Spanish Fork: cost of, centers, estimate)

[SLCPUNK]

Originally Posted by Zionide

Not to rain on anybody's paranoid delusions of victimization...

Tell to that to all the kids in the ER, or those at home sucking on their inhalers. I've personally spoken to residents who don't smoke and led healthy lifestyles, yet have irreversible lung damage that leaves them struggling to breath daily. I guess that's all part of a paranoid delusion too huh?

Repeated exposure to toxic air certainly has short term and long term health consequences, regardless of how many days out of the year it is. In other words, that 10% of the year can absolutely wreck havoc on how you experience the other 90%. To claim otherwise is disingenuous. Nothing "alarmist" about that at all.

Originally Posted by skibarbie

I think it's good news that people are leaving the valley and that others are changing their minds about moving here due to air quality! The less people that are here the better off we all are.

It's good in a sense, but remember people are leaving because they (or their children) have become chronically ill from breathing the air in the valley over the years.

[skibarbie]

People move from various communities for all types of reasons. Retirement, job opportunities, family situations etc.
I guess what it boils down to for me, and this is just my opinion, I have not experienced, nor has my family, from the smog that becomes trapped in the temperature inversion.
Our state officials have yeoman's work ahead of them to due,and they are not by any stretch of the imagination being proactive.
I also am getting tired of reading all the stuff the whiners are posting so this will be it for me.
If you truly think it is sooooo bad, then move!
Move down to Moab where the tailings piles are an issue. Move to Park City where the water, air and tailings piles are issues. Move up to Logan/Vernal where the inversions really last.
Move to Kansas where the drought and fracking are issues.
Move to North Dakota where the oil boom is going on but you can't find a place to live and the ground water is being contaminated.
Move to Kentucky or West Virginia where they are cutting all the mountain tops off in the devastated mining areas.
Better yet, move just a bit to the West where birds and wildlife are being devastated by the cyanide used at gold mines.
There are lots of problems in lots of places and as soon as someone finds a little piece of paradise, everyone wants to be there too and bring all their problems with them.
In the meantime, what are all the whiners personally doing about the smog? Who has bought a bus pass? Who has installed solar panels to cut down on electricity and natural gas consumption? Anyone started composting and doing way better in the recycle department than they were last October? Who has stopped buying produce that is so far out of season and has to be shipped from South America? Who has stopped using drive thru establishments?
I won't continue on my rant here and will just say that posting "links" on CD may be a start but if that is all you are doing, that is pretty lame....

[dcisive]

Thanks Skibarbie for that list of places I'd have NO interest in going to. Oh and I did do something. I bought a near ZERO emission hybrid car thank you. Stuff that in your pipe and smoke it :-)

[UTES]

Lest we forget, this site and the forums therein exist for the purpose of members exchanging information about cities. The information is what it is. It's dismissive to label real concerns of members as whining.

Look at the page and post count for this issue. It's a record high for the time I've been a member here. The participation level in this thread demonstrates clearly this is an important issue for our members.

Bill

[dcisive]

indeed not whining. The last few times I visited my doctor for regular follow ups he was slammed by the new and current sufferers from the inversions. He too said it's getting worse each year and more and more end up on meds to keep them going. It is so easy to try to ignore if you can, but frankly I don't choose to and for many they have NO choice in the matter

[CCSLC]

Originally Posted by dcisive

Thanks Skibarbie for that list of places I'd have NO interest in going to. Oh and I did do something. I bought a near ZERO emission hybrid car thank you. Stuff that in your pipe and smoke it :-)

Over half of the PM2.5 in our air that comes from automobiles is NOT from emissions but from brake dust, road dust, engine wear, etc. While having a zero emission car certainly makes you more helpful than most, it most definitely does not mean you're contributing ZERO to our automobile PM2.5 problem.

[CCSLC]

Originally Posted by SLCPUNK

Tell to that to all the kids in the ER, or those at home sucking on their inhalers. I've personally spoken to residents who don't smoke and led healthy lifestyles, yet have irreversible lung damage that leaves them struggling to breath daily. I guess that's all part of a paranoid delusion too huh?

Repeated exposure to toxic air certainly has short term and long term health consequences, regardless of how many days out of the year it is. In other words, that 10% of the year can absolutely wreck havoc on how you experience the other 90%. To claim otherwise is disingenuous. Nothing "alarmist" about that at all.

It's good in a sense, but remember people are leaving because they (or their children) have become chronically ill from breathing the air in the valley over the years.

I wouldn't call it delusional or paranoid. I'd call it psychosomatic. Give people an excuse (however unlikely) that alleviates them from even a portion of the blame and they'll take it.

And it's not like I'm trying to convince people to move here. I'd prefer places be less crowded and would love if people would just keep moving away. But the rhetoric in this forum has gotten totally absurd.

[movingonagain777]

I didn't consider myself whining since I have been very active with my letter campaign and doing what I can to bring about a change. I think the more people that hear about this issue and begin to talk about it the better chance we have of making a difference here. As much as I would love to help other States with their issues I am concerned with where I currently reside. People in numbers can do a lot about a situation that is negatively impacting lives. The economy will suffer if companies and people move away or avoid moving here due to the pollution. It would be sad if the ignorance here drives it to come to that to bring about change.

Here is another great source for information if you are on facebook. I certainly would trust the local doctors and moms who are trying to help before I would listen to those who live above the inversion or have a tie to the industry that pollutes here. I just want folks to know what they are getting into especially those who already have health issues. Knowledge is power.

https://www.facebook.com/utahphysici...thyenvironment

[SLCPUNK]

Originally Posted by skibarbie

People move from various communities for all types of reasons. Retirement, job opportunities, family situations etc.
I guess what it boils down to for me, and this is just my opinion, I have not experienced, nor has my family, from the smog that becomes trapped in the temperature inversion.
Our state officials have yeoman's work ahead of them to due,and they are not by any stretch of the imagination being proactive.
I also am getting tired of reading all the stuff the whiners are posting so this will be it for me.
If you truly think it is sooooo bad, then move!
Move down to Moab where the tailings piles are an issue. Move to Park City where the water, air and tailings piles are issues. Move up to Logan/Vernal where the inversions really last.
Move to Kansas where the drought and fracking are issues.
Move to North Dakota where the oil boom is going on but you can't find a place to live and the ground water is being contaminated.
Move to Kentucky or West Virginia where they are cutting all the mountain tops off in the devastated mining areas.
Better yet, move just a bit to the West where birds and wildlife are being devastated by the cyanide used at gold mines.
There are lots of problems in lots of places and as soon as someone finds a little piece of paradise, everyone wants to be there too and bring all their problems with them.
In the meantime, what are all the whiners personally doing about the smog? Who has bought a bus pass? Who has installed solar panels to cut down on electricity and natural gas consumption? Anyone started composting and doing way better in the recycle department than they were last October? Who has stopped buying produce that is so far out of season and has to be shipped from South America? Who has stopped using drive thru establishments?
I won't continue on my rant here and will just say that posting "links" on CD may be a start but if that is all you are doing, that is pretty lame....

Pointing the fingers elsewhere and name calling do not eliminate the problems with the air quality in SLC.

[SLCPUNK]

Originally Posted by Zionide

I wouldn't call it delusional or paranoid. I'd call it psychosomatic. Give people an excuse (however unlikely) that alleviates them from even a portion of the blame and they'll take it.

.

This is a false argument that I see often with this issue.

One group (AKA "The whiners") points out the problem.

The second group then paints them as hypocrites (with zero tangible evidence) as a means to put them on the defensive and pivot away from the real issue (Air pollution.)

This is common when one group decides to deviate form the status quo and how the thread is starting to evolve now.