What Do You Consider To Be The Most Powerful Arguments For Your Belief Or Lack Of Belief? (churches, Revelations)

[Chango]

I have a degree in Anthropology but I also live in a haunted house and have had the "pleasure" of witnessing unexplained events on a regular basis. I guess I can see both points of view.

[dcashley]

The most powerful arguemts for my beliefs are the following:
1. The bible has LOTS of errors in it.
2. The bible was edited and changed numerous times.
3. The story of Jesus exactly matches the story of Mithra. And many of the stories of Ra, Osiris, and others.
4. Someplace in the bible it says, "You will know them by their fruits." The fruits I see are: Crusades, Inquest, 30 years war, War of Roses, Holocaust, Genocide of American Indians. And most recently the Pope tells people in Africa that it's better to die from AIDS than use a condom.
5. It seems to me that it would be silly to say the universe(s) just popped into existence--so there must be some prime mover--God if you will.-- It just ain't jesus, Allah, or whomever.

Ergo: I am a diest. Not an athiest. Not a "beleiver."

[JakeDog]

Lack of evidence or any need.

[Miss Shawn_2828]

Originally Posted by MontanaGuy

shawn_2828 wrote:

That's exactly how my Mother and one of my sisters feel. I think it's a common feeling among Christians and I do think I understand your point of view. Thanks for your thoughts.

Well, I'm not sure if I can explain in a way that you would understand more, but here are some other thoughts. Before I knew who God was or even knew what the bible was I began to have this since of a longing for something but didn't know what it was. I was sincing a presence around me, but didin't understand what was really going on in my life. I didn't have anyone in my life who taught me about God, so I didn't know who He was. People would talk about Him, but I still did not have a clue to who God was.

Then I just had this longing to just want to be near God, but that was odd because I didn't know Him or understand who He was. Then I just had an encounter with God, He came to me and I began to experience the presence of God. So, I found out who He was not by people, but from experiencing Him, experiencing His presence, experiencing His love, experiencing of Him healing me, experiencing Him healing my hurts, experiencing just hearing Him for myself, and this was before the bible, and before I really knew who He was.

Then I began to read the bible of the God that I already knew about and it just worked for me.

For some it may be difficult to understand or believe that someone can have a relationship with someone they can't see or believe in. But God is just as close as you let Him. I experience Him and know that God is who He says that He is and I really don't argue with people, because they have the right to believe or not believe.

I just love God because He came to me and I just came to Him in return. I didn't go and search and try to find God, He came to me. That is how I know that God exist, because God came and made Himself known to me.

I'm not sure if you don't understand my view about God or my view of how I got to know God. But I came to know Him by spending time with Him, praying, meditating, talking, listening, etc....

[17271]

To me the most powerful argument theists have is something can't come from nothing. It's very true that a cause starts an effect.

[hooterville]

I really have no idea what I believe in anymore? it's frustrating because faith and logic is like oil and water....they just do not mix. The way I see it is you must be able to put aside any questioning attitude you may have and fully accept whatever your choice in G_d is on faith. The older I get, the harder this has been for me to do. I realize there are no "cut & dry" answers, only anothers interpretation.

One of my problems is with the Bible. For starters, to believe that something so accurate has been passed on when written by over 40 men (with their own agendas) in a time span of 1500 years, is hard for me to "wrap my head around." I've sat in circles of 10 or less and had to pass a simple sentence on and by the time it got around, it was nothing like that of the original....and that took maybe 5 minutes! So this I struggle with.

I also find it hard to believe that those who do not accept/believe a certain way (that he died on the cross for our sins & all that jazz...) is basically on a path to hell. I just can't believe how "Geography" can play such an important role on ones salvation. I mean being born in the USA where Christianity is the #1 religion is pretty safe to say on how your going to be raised. But had you been born hundreds of years ago in China and you might not have been so lucky....even in this day & age there are other "worldly areas" where your fate would be sealed....all because of where you are born & what that countries customs/beliefs are? your doomed?

Another thing I "don't get" is how someone's "alter call from the 70's" still has them in good graces even though they resemble little of whats good.(Because hey! Salvation can never be lost, right?) But some may show up, fill the pews, and go thru the motions....I guess thats good enough.

I suppose I don't really have any "defining" answers as I could go on and on. I only know that I am still struggling, confused, searching and learning. I want to believe, I should believe, I used to believe without question. Now I'm just whatever "label or group" someone has made up for people like me! Peace.

[Mattie Jo]

Having had an experience of God I cannot say that there isn't a God. I can say that the OT is not a representation of God.

I had been a Christian in earlier times, and I realize that I had never really been able to do a critique on the bible. Why? Maybe I believed if God said it it was the truth. But I have been reading the Bible along with the book The Good Book--reading the Bible first and then writing down my reactions and then reading The Good Book and seeing what the author felt when he read that part of the Bible. I am almost done with Genesis. It isn't just that the myths are there, as we all know; that isn't the half of it. The so-called men that God loved and protected were immoral. They lie and cheat. What is worse they give their virgin daughters to be raped by men in the story of Sodom. In another story, a man's daughter (or wife) was raped, and so they kill the entire village, men, women, and children. Then Abraham marries his sister and when he travels to another land he fears that the king will want his beautiful wife and kill him for her, so he lies to him by telling him that she is his sister. The king (and this happens twice) takes his wife, learns later that it was his wife (one time God told him, another time God caused a plague and the king realized it) so he gave her back to Abraham along with many animals, servants, and money. Abraham gets rich off this sceme. God then punishes each king.

I sit and read this book and realize that man has certainly made up this cruel and unjust God. This is not the God that I believe in, that is for sure. One wonders what other wonderful things this God is going to do for those so-called good men as I continue to read? And when I read it I realize why many Christians are not moral, why war is so easy, and so on. I also realize why they say that God is on our side in wars, etc.

And I know that the Christians will come along and justify everything that God and his holy men have done in the Bible, because that is what they have done it for thousands of years. This God of Abraham is a tribal God like that of the Muslims, and His thought processes are the same.

[sanspeur]

Originally Posted by 17271

To me the most powerful argument theists have is something can't come from nothing. It's very true that a cause starts an effect.

Yup, that is a great argument against any and all Gods, but science doesn't say that anything, including our universe came from nothing...Only creationists say that.

[Ilene Wright]

Originally Posted by MontanaGuy

The most obvious problem I can see with the Christian faith is that it's been two thousand years since Jesus was supposed to have been resurrected and he was supposed to have come back to earth but he never did. After such a huge expanse of time I see that as a reason to believe he's never going to.

1. Psalm 90:4
   For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.
   
2. 2 Peter 3:8
   But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

There's your answer to that question. Basically it's been like two days in God's timing. Here's another scripture to answer what you said:

Acts 1:7
He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.

And another:

1 Thessalonians 5:2
for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

Ergo the screenname. We are living in the last days and the time has come. I'm going to quote myself on something I said a while back that applies here:

<quote>
Originally posted by DayoftheLord
Matthew 16:28
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
Mark 9:1
And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."
Luke 9:27
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God."

As you can see, it's mentioned 3 times in 3 different books. It's very important to understand those particular times and how Jesus spoke. He spoke in parables and he spoke mostly in a way that the people of His time could not understand what he meant. Why do you suppose that is? Because His words were mostly not directed to His generation....they were meant for all generations and certain understandings of certain things would not and could not be understood until God meant for it to be understood and when knowledge increased.

Knowledge has increased. The time is here "NOW" and Jesus is coming "SOON". What Jesus meant when He spoke those words is that the final generation, OUR generation, will not die before His return.
If you look at it in terms of prophecy being fulfilled (there are many good resources to find out what prophecies) and the SUPER "SIGN" of Israel being reborn in 1948, OUR generation since 1948 is aging out.
Our life spans are approximately 70 years, and it's been 61 years since 1948.

Okay, so.....There is a tribulation period of 7 years. General math tells us that we may have at the most, based on the Biblical teaching that mankind only lives around 70 years because that's how God wanted it, we have a window of only 2 years before the Rapture happens. And roughly 9 years before Jesus' second coming and the end of the world as we know it. <end quote>

The creation stories of Genesis with God creating the universe in six days, the obvious mythology of the story of Adam and Eve, the impossible saga of Noah's ark and the countless contradictory passages in the Bible combined with the manic depressive behavior attributed to God appear to me to be overwhelming evidence that the Bible is not based on reality.

How is all of this "obvious mythology" or "impossible"?? Simply because you cannot do it, means that God can't either? You are thinking with a carnal mind, putting God on the same level as human beings.

No one has ever presented any credible evidence of a miracle, the existence of the soul, life after death, and the list goes on. All of these factors have persuaded me to be an atheist.

Miracles happen everyday. Christians have said time and time again that Christianity is based on faith. A negative spin can be put on anything if one so chooses. Many people have related stories of their personal testimonies and even miracles on this board, but the atheists always respond with "personal experiences cannot be proven or counted as proof". There is no way to "prove" anything to you. You have to choose to have faith and then you will experience God.

I'm interested in hearing what other atheists as well as Christians feel are the most powerful influences that have shaped their belief or lack of belief.what has shaped your beliefs?

Well, how about a complete life and personality change?? Jesus has done for me what ONLY He can do. I am nothing without Him, and everything good with Him. My hostility and lack of belief were shaped by being taught incorrectly and abusively by men, but my belief and faith that I have now is of my own doing, my own choice, my instinctive knowledge (which btw, we ALL have, see scripture below) that there is a God and my choice to listen to the Holy Spirit working in me. I will be eternally grateful that God did not give up on me and allowed me the time to truly accept Jesus Christ as my Savior so that I CAN spend eternity thanking Him. Oh, and the treasures in heaven aren't too shabby either.

Scripture showing God is known to all instinctively

Romans 1:19-20
"For the truth about God is know to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts. From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see His invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God".

[dcashley]

Originally Posted by sanspeur

Yup, that is a great argument against any and all Gods, but science doesn't say that anything, including our universe came from nothing...Only creationists say that.

What, then, is the "singularity"? ---the big bang? I am now majorly confused.