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All of this could of been duplicated by Noah, and since it was God that directed the building of the Ark, I'm sure He would of given Noah the best information on how to build it.
But seriously, Campbell, given freedom's All Powerful God who can do anything (see his quote below), answer me this one: (You gotta know what's coming, but anyhow PLEEEEZE ANSWER IT. I'M ASKING POLITELY!):
Why did he require Noah to build said hyper-tech advanced super cruise-liner Ark? Why not just have a few conveniently located islands that wouldn't be flooded by "Intelligent Design" (i.e.: near to or centered in each massive continental landmass). No difficult world-wide rounding up of hesitant animals.
Why didn't he just wiggle his nose and place the appropriate species into some nicely illuminated waiting room or meadow or forest in the time-space continuum for a few time-warped minutes while he purged the planet of the remnant sinners? Why 40 days and 40 nights when he can just waggle his nose?
And then, wouldn't a nice world-wide series of earthquakes and volcanos and hurricanes do a better job than a soggy flood that wrecked the world's salinity for a few years?
Why why why? I know: because the authors of this fable couldn't have possibly imagined warps in the time-space continuum. That's precisely why.
4. There is mounting evidence (Really? A link, please, from an accredited scientific journal that there was the required volume of water hidden under the earth) that there is still huge amounts of water (again, just how much is "huge"?) stored deep in the earth's crystal lattices. As stated in New Scientist 1997. See L. Bergeron "Deep Waters" "You have oceans and oceans of water stored in the transition zone".
All I was able to find was a brief ref to "billions of droplets of water". Hardly a world flood source, but I'll take a look at any better refs you might have. Please don't link me to a Christian apologist's pseudo-science site though.
"Thus, it seems to be reasonable to think that rain was the source of the flood in the Epic. However, D.E. Rush estimates that the amount of water vapor which can be held above the atmosphere is equivalent to about 20 inches of rainfall."
Note that's not per hour, but total. We'd need, what was it, 39 inches per hour for 40 days to provide sufficient volume? Is that likely or even possible to you? The author then goes on to note that such volumes of water uniformly held in our overloaded atmosphere would have severe climatological consequences, and is thus highly unlikely. Even to Christian "scientists".
Also your mystic underground source water had to bubble up, evaporate and then re-distribute as rainfall 'cause that's what your bible says! Oooopsss again.
And if you remporarily relocate that much water from inside the sphere to outside, yah think there might have been a tad bit of geotechnical instability in the crust that even now shudders when it gets a bit too warm down there. Imagine that weight of water bearing down on an emptied sphere. What's that cracking sound and those odd vibrations?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
Ridiculous hypothesis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
...Or perhaps this actual event.
• During the Ice Age, Ryan and Pitman argue, the Black Sea was an isolated freshwater lake surrounded by farmland.
• About 12,000 years ago, toward the end of the Ice Age, Earth began growing warmer. Vast sheets of ice that sprawled over the Northern Hemisphere began to melt. Oceans and seas grew deeper as a result.
• About 7,000 years ago the Mediterranean Sea swelled. Seawater pushed northward, slicing through what is now Turkey.
Trouble is, san, that this predates the construction of the earth by, oh, 6000 years according to the YECs. How can that be? I'm confused again.
• Seared into the memories of terrified survivors, the tale of the flood was passed down through the generations and eventually became the Noah story
Huh? What the heck did you say here, and what does it have to do with the topic?
It's called a deflective argument or alternately, if the poster isn't quite that sneaky, it's a default position that saves the moment from an embarrassing concession. Or a comfort-behavior that Minister The Right Honourable Minister Lady Ice notes below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
How was the water contained? Rock, at least the rock which makes up the earth's crust, doesn't float. The water would have been forced to the surface long before Noah's time, or Adam's time for that matter.
Even a mile deep, the earth is boiling hot (easily proven, BTW...) , and thus the reservoir of water would be superheated. Further heat would be added by the energy of the water falling from above the atmosphere.
Noah would have been poached.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
We're not talking about a mixed drink here.
Funny, and yet satisfyingly apparent...
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom
Maybe we are not, but I am...
Open your mind and heart to the possibility, that "All things are possible" with our Father in Heaven. He can multiply water, heat water, cool water, freeze water, or vaporize water.
He is not bound to man's view of physical norms. He is "ALL powerful".
See my comments above. Why, again, did God permit all of this loony logic? Did he need to prove he was all-powerful to Noah? To a reluctant T-rex? To his creators? To himself?
So when you get to mocking how wonderful His powers are, you only make yourself to be ignorant of your creator, and put yourself in the high seat of pride.
We're not "mocking" anyone, freedom. We're just asking some questions. One might well alternately ask why dogmatic fundamentalists never ever concede that any of our politely asked questions are at least interesting.
Oddly, they then go to great lengths on their own websites and literature to dig about, clumsily, in real science in hopes of finding some supposedly valid statements or data by one of us accredited real and intellectually honest scientists. If they find even a weak argument it ends up plastered everywhere "proving", by science, the entire biblical account.
If further honest investigation or input from other scientists (it's called peer review and it keeps us scientists truly honest!) refutes or modifies the initial "discovery", well stand back!
This is usually then followed by insulting combative put-downs of scientists and the honest and purely objective principles that absolutely define scientific investigation. Some Christian apologists are really quite insulting towards any scientist that refutes any religion, as you know. Of course if it saves their wife's life (as with, say, antibiotics...) why, it's darned wonderful!
Science just has to know its limitations, right? As in "stay away from the topic of religious theories! Or Else!"
You really wonder why we're increasingly sceptical?
godspeed,
freedom
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom
The beginning of humility is recognizing one's creator and then comprehending the awesomeness of Him.
godspeed,
freedom
Well, respectfully, freedom, (and I find that you usually post quite rational arguments even though you'rre a believer), to dispute or refute honest scepticism and demand that it be replaced with a fable that obviously flies in the face of so many simple and logical questions is perhaps, in and of itself, a bit arrogant, wouldn't you say?
Tell me that our questions are arrogant, and not just logically and properly sceptical, as all scientific inquiry must be. In light of the total lack of even a smidgen of potential proof (which we could then run with and examine further through honest experimentation) can you understand our growing impatience? I know you can. But can you also admit it online? "There's the rub" m'laddie!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Ice
While I absolutely respect your right to believe what you do, it amazes me that time and again when faced with an intellectual arguement christians invariably do the written equivalent of putting their hands over their ears and shouting "I'm not listening, I'm not listening" . The above is a perfect example of what I'm saying.
Ehy-eow, "quite-quite", Lady Ice. Thenk you, m'lady! You're now our new "Minister of Information with Humour". Comes with quite a respectable salary, I'm told!
Wait.. there's water rising quickly around my feet. Oh I forgot; I'm in the shower.....
Last edited by rifleman; 12-07-2008 at 02:21 PM..
Reason: typos
They didn't die. That's why I'm saying those civilizations never recorded the incident. They had records BEFORE the Flood and records AFTER the Flood, but no records of any massive flood lasting 40-days during the time it was supposed to be taking place.
God just 'poof' made more lions and penguins? out of thin air?
Your saying everyone died. So we're all related to Noah?
It doesn't matter how illogical and hard to beleive it is? If the Bible says it, it "must" be? wow. Now thats what I call a blind faith. Hard to rationalize with someone like that No offence.[/quote]
Many oral traditions speak of a global flood, and there appears to be a very large man made object on Mt. Ararat at an altitude of 15,500 feet on it's north slope which is usually covered by snow. Yet there are a number of eyewitiness accounts that claim it is the ark. So even if the story sounds illogical to you, there are a number of accounts that support it.
What happened Campbell? Get caught in a time warp? You are back to posting the Ararat anomaly again for....what is it the 23rd time? Run out of arguments have we? Well that should make it easy for you...Just cut and paste whichever of your posts fits the bill.
Didn't you hear the story about Chief Noah's Canoe? Shhheeesh, pay attention in the TeePee, will ya.
Sorry guy...I've out back of the longhouse carving a new canoe for myself....I think that almost all native peoples on the west coast have their own flood legend...Here is an explanation of why, and the Haida flood legend. Just the fact that it is well documented that the Haida have lived on the Queen Charlotte Islands for more than 10,000 years sorta blows not only the Noah fable, but the creationist theory as well.
Sorry guy...I've out back of the longhouse carving a new canoe for myself....I think that almost all native peoples on the west coast have their own flood legend...Here is an explanation of why, and the Haida flood legend. Just the fact that it is well documented that the Haida have lived on the Queen Charlotte Islands for more than 10,000 years sorta blows not only the Noah fable, but the creationist theory as well.
I was told by a good friend of mine "ptsum" that they are now finding that the Native American had actually came from the East coast and moved west. Instead of coming from the northwest (the straits) and moveing south then east.
I was told by a good friend of mine "ptsum" that they are now finding that the Native American had actually came from the East coast and moved west. Instead of coming from the northwest (the straits) and moveing south then east.
This is pretty technical, but if you can wade through it is interesting...Lots of new tools available now that track not only the migration to the Americas, but human migration world wide.
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Logic. Illogic. Confusion rules in some minds!
No offence.[/quote]
Shhheeesh, pay attention in the TeePee, will ya.
....I think that almost all native peoples on the west coast have their own flood legend...Here is an explanation of why, and the Haida flood legend. Just the fact that it is well documented that the Haida have lived on the Queen Charlotte Islands for more than 10,000 years sorta blows not only the Noah fable, but the creationist theory as well.
