Gary Olsen's "Master Path" - anybody familiar? (souls, hell, quote)

[deepcynic]

annamalita,

If you have read this thread you would realize that end_of_faith did not 'lose' her faith.

That seems to be what you are missing, Gary and MP are not worthy of faith.

What end_of_faith came to realize is that Gary and Joy are in it for the power and the money. That is not 'losing faith' that is coming to the realization that Gary is a user, for his own means!

She was likely much like you, searching, trusting and sincere.

I love some one very much that succumbed to Gary and MP, trust me, you need to wake up and run away from this criminal as soon as possible!

[end_of_faith]

Originally Posted by annamalita

I know the teachings are borrowed. I also understand that you were looking for the inner sound. What I didn't understand was following an outer guru who ever the guru might be. I thought it would have been the actual teaching borrowed or not that you wanted to discover.

The inner sound as I have experienced it is not rational thought. Rational thought is nothing like the sound. Rational thought belongs in the lower worlds and is an aspect of Kal.

As for moving I got married so needed to be with my husband. I now see the similarity in wanting to live close to someone you love such as in your case Gary. I'm sorry I didnt see it from that angle before as I was viewing from the angle that Gary is just a human being whereas the shabda is inside of YOU. I didn't understand that you thought that if u moved closer to him you would hear or discover the sound. In that sense it seemed irational to me as the shabda is in all things. But I can understand you wanting to be close to a close friend. In my own case I wanted to be with my husband.

I hope you don't mind me asking you, but did you lose your faith when you reached the 4th - 7th initiations? I'm only asking because as you will know that is the time when you are really having to take a close look at yourself, and it is a time when the rational mind does not want to let go. It's at this juncture that chelas lose their faith because the mind digs it's heels in. It's a time when the mind will find anything and everything to take it away from the path.

I only ask because Im trying to understand.

For those who are unfamiliar with “L&S” parlance: Kal is the negative energy of the lower worlds (i.e., physical, emotional, mental), or the equivalent of Satan or the Devil in Christian terminology.

So according to Annamelita (the “psychic” at birth, “Cosmic Consciousness” at 21, and 4th initiate of Gary Olsen in her 60’s), rational thought is negative, deceptive, illusory and evil, and should be shunned as having no value in consciousness or spirituality.

Annamelita, your interpretation is seriously skewed. You know nothing about my experience, and your perceptive skills are as hampered as your “lower world” physical body.

Maybe you should apply your “deep understanding of self-examination” to understanding the emotional & mental condition of a son who attempts suicide in front of you.

And maybe instead of being grateful for a peaceful state of not caring, or smugly assuming you are beyond the thoughtful intelligence of another human being such as a trained professional, you might show TRUE compassion for the internal turmoil of a son that would take such extreme measures to get YOUR attention! Perhaps your son could benefit from the listening ear of someone who does think rationally!

Understand this: your regurgitation of your outer master’s plagiarized teachings and your dysfunctional life story that blissfully harmonizes with tripe as truth, is meaningless to me. And the vibration of “sound” emitted carries the energetic frequency of a parasitic blood-sucking vampire.

Now, I really don’t care where you think I’m at in consciousness. It matters not. I also could give a hoot what your “outer master” thinks.

Btw: the famous quote is “Physician heal thyself.”

[Still_Kicking]

I think we’ve gotten away from something here in this whole discussion with and about Annamalita and her woeful experiences.

Sorry Annamalita if Gary and the MP was so great for all of us, we would have stayed on right? Especially if we were all consistently getting the value that you say you’ve gotten. I mean the value in and of itself would've resolved any concerns our lower minds might have right? You know the whole bliss thing. Great if it really has worked for you, truly.

Or are you questioning the sincerity of others posting here? However you would be advised this is likely the wrong place to do that sort of questioning, unless you want an answer that brings up more questions for you, which as we all know Gary doesn't like, and thus be fresh cause for more woe for you. Truth has a way of doing that, and truth isn’t always loving despite what you might have been told to the contrary about it being loving. I am also going to have to point out that if this exercise on challenging others sincerity on this website is really only a reflection of your own deep seated fears that are expressing themselves, in the hope that these fears will be removed or alleviated.

That being said you have been appropriately told of the consequences.

As Arthur Deikman points out in his book, “The Wrong Way Home” it isn’t effective to ask “Is this a cult?”, but more effectively to ask “How much cult behavior is taking place?”

Four principal cult behaviors: dependence on the leader, compliance within the group, avoiding dissent, and devaluing the outsider. And then there is the list from the ReFocus website, posted on page 95 of the CD forum for this thread.

And then there is "Ockham's Razor" is the principle that "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" and the conclusion thereof, that the simplest explanation or strategy tends to be the best one that one can use in discerning what is likely to be true, and useful, and what is well….crap

More to the point I gathered some more information and knowledge for the more discerning of readers.

I pulled this from Arthur Deikman’s other more recent book, “Cult Thinking and the Terrorist Threat”

“Usually the word cult refers to a group led by a charismatic leader with spiritual, therapeutic, or messianic pretensions who indoctrinates members with his or her idiosyncratic beliefs."

Dr. Deikman points out that in his review of Robert Jay Lifton’s landmark book “Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism”, that towards the end of the book Lifton comments on the childhood helplessness and dependence can create the desire for totalism, that is someone who is running your life since it is easier to have this person take care of you. Apparently this is rather deep seated in most of us, this longing for parents if you will in the consciousness that can and does exist even into adulthood for most of the population. The longing can sometimes result in fantasies that exist in the borderlands of our consciousness and may seldom be noticed, but they maybe superimposed on people who occupy real positions of authority, success and power, or their images maybe displaced to a heavenly realm.

Only by recognizing the indwelling wish can we gain freedom from the world of vertical relationships and gain an eye-to-eye level viewpoint, versus one of being a subordinate, worthless piece of dog meat." (As hypocritical as that is to hear Gary say it)

So recognize your indwelling longing for someone to take care of you, instead of you taking care of you, and then you can become free, as long as you’re willing to take responsibility for your life that is.

Some people aren’t able to Annamalita so I do understand, and not everything that has happened in your life is your fault either. Best of luck with that, and I do echo Violet11's comments about hoping that you do have some humane support as you work your way through your challenges.

[end_of_faith]

Thank you Still_Kicking for your re-focusing of the subject.

I also apologize to Anna if the words written caused "hurt feelings."Anna, I echo the same concern of Still_Kicking and Violet11 that you have humane support as you work through your personal challenges.

As far as the outer hierarchy of initiation levels on MP: I do not honor the initiation of MP. Could I share a "story" about it. You betcha. Do I wish to? Not really.

Best wishes to you Anna, and your son and husband.

[end_of_faith]

as far as initiation goes....

please consider me a: 0

[Violet11]

For me it's been very interesting to read the thoughts of current chelas like Annamalita. Interesting in scary way, I mean. The whole "it's about the teachings, not the man" claim falls apart when accompanied by comments such as "Garji is my highest concern". After all, Garji is supposedly "the word personified" and Gary is supposedly "the word made flesh", and they look exactly alike. Please, there are no two ways around it...there IS a very unhealthy focus on Gary and his image.

On the psychology of wanting/needing a "master" ie. feelings of helplessness and dependence, for MP I suppose part of that is believing the master takes your karma so you won't have to suffer as much in this life. But it doesn't appear that Gary/Garji taking karma is working very well for Annamalita, and it didn't work very well for the chelas involved in the murder/suicide.

A couple of things occur to me about members of MP who have posted here and on other boards. Many seem to have disdain for the gift of human life. They find it cumbersome and unnecessary and they're desperate to keep from having to come back to the "lower worlds". I mean we all have pain in life, but since we're here, why not make the most of the gift we've been given rather than focus so intensely on avoiding it in the future?

There is also a selfishness that strikes me with members of MP. For instance the false superiority that if you're not in MasterPath you can't know truth, or the "devaluing of the outsider" as Still_Kicking mentioned. And when very real and tragic things are happening, "taking the hand of Garji" draws focus away from compassion and caring for fellow humans and loved ones who are suffering.

Any loving and kind soul knows that (even in the dreaded "lower worlds"), selflessness and empathy for other souls, whether on your path or not - that connection is what humanity is about. MP seems to view humanity as some kind of punishment. If I had to guess, "being grateful for a peaceful state of not caring" (as e_o_f described it so well)...is more likely to hamper the evolution of a soul than advance it. But whatever gets you through the day I guess.

Though she has enormous knowledge and experience with MP teachings, and I don't,...I'm with end_of_faith as a "0" initiate and could not be happier or more at peace with my purpose and the future of my soul. And in the words of Annamalita, "from the awareness I have, it comes across"...that end_of_faith actually has a far greater understanding of "God" and the universe than any initiate level of MP.

[Still_Kicking]

Don't know if this will help you or not, but I offer this up as something that may help, or not.

This learned helplessness thing seems to keep on popping up when I'm responding to the posts of recent so I'm going to provide an excerpt from the Unfettered mind website so that others can see what I'm seeing and decide for themselves.

I almost don't want to mention this website since they also practice a version of Vajrayana buddhism that basically is about using one's teacher as an ideal to achieve enlightenment.

-- Does this sound familiar? --

It should it's the basics of the MP, check out Wikipedia on Varjayana and the unfettered mind website to learn more about if you so wish.

So to be totally and emphatically clear I am NOT advocating or suggest joining this spiritual practice. Personally I take what is useful and cast off the rest, you can likely tell by now that I've had more than my fill of inner or outer masters, guru's and the like.

Like anything else be your own judge.


Dealing with Learned Helpless in....., "a more succinct formulation comes from the Korean master Seung Sa Nihm:

First kill the Buddha.
Then kill your parents.
Then kill your teacher.

In other words, we remove any idea that there is an ideal such as enlightenment or buddha that is going to save us. Then we remove all the habituations that we acquired from our family. Finally, we remove even the habituations we acquire as a student. Then we can stand in awareness and serve what is true."


On this website they also mentioned about leaving other guru paths and the impact can be a 4 - 5 year journey back to normalcy (balance, equanimity, peace and joy) that really hit home for me, however I do believe that it doesn't have to take that long, but that assumes that one is addressing the learned helplessness aspect that I am attempting to point out since I have come to see it as the fundamental lynch pin aspect that has helped me to move on to whatever degree that I have so far.

I share all of this in the hope that it helps alleviate others suffering that I have known all too well. I believe it is time for all of us to move on.

[end_of_faith]

Originally Posted by annamalita

Nothing in the physical world is free. We pay for everything one way or another.

Interesting how that "principle" ultimately serves the "master," and not the chelas.

How about all the FREE Professional Services rendered to MP by chelas. Services that have and do directly benefit Gary Olsen, his wife, and his staff.

Those professional services are FREE and exist in the physical world.

Or, is a note card with the perfunctory response of “the master is very aware of your donation/seva” the payment “the Saints” make?

Originally Posted by annamalita

I have just been glancing over the thread about bird flu and the one about lack of self awareness.

Although Sri Gary used the Bird Flu as an example he didn't actually say it was going to happen but he did actually advise us on what we should all have if SOME MAJOR INCIDENT were to befall our city or country so that we would at least have some safety.

It wasn't "an example"...it was THE TOPIC. And he SPECIFICALLY advised chelas what to do in preparation for it. Isn't the title of the talk the Bird Flu?

He gave it 90 % chance of happening within 3 to 4 mos from the date of his talk. What you are saying is AFTER THE FACT. It’s funny how the mind rationalizes events…is that part of the “trickery” of the “outer and inner worlds” you've travelled and know so well.

I knew every chela that was employed by MP (as of May 2006) and I was kept very aware of the focus of their attention in following your master’s message of fear.

Originally Posted by annamalita

As for the Master not being aware of another persons grief and showing disaproval at the fact that someone sought out a professional to help them over the grief. He was probably trying to show the person that she could have got far greater care and help if SHE had gone within to seek the help of the Inner Master. By going to a professional she would be going backwards instead of forewards. It showed HER lack of trust in the Inner Master by seeking outside help.

When I read the thread about a professional therapist I wanted to laugh. The only real therapist is right inside, not sitting in some office. The Master always says HE is right inside of you closer than your own heartbeat. HE is not sri gary, HE is the INNER MASTER that knows us better than we know ourselves. Sri Gary just points the way. Sri Gary is just human the same as us, but he channels the shabda. It is up to us if we connect with it or not. It is there for all of us. If you don't tap into it it is not Sri Gary's fault. He is doing HIS best to get us to understand. If the woman was not able to hear what he was saying it doesn't mean that HE was wrong it just means she was closing herself up to the very help she needed.

This is my own interpretation. I might also be wrong for all I know but it is my viewpoint from where I currently am.

Anna, I know the chela. And as far as I know, she is still a chela….and she was/is a very SINCERE chela. It does not show "HER" lack of trust. And it definitely doesn't mean she was going "backwards rather than forward." But since you view it from that position...let me ask you this question: you claim cosmic consciousness at a young age, and now you're a 4th initiate: did you go backwards?

(Also, it is unnecessary to explain the “finer subtlety” of the MP teachings (or specifically the “I was not where I was supposed to be” rap). I understand exactly what you were saying in your previous posts.

Or, how about this: you and your master sound an awful lot like religious groups that refuse medical care because their "faith in God" will heal them....and then when the child or adult dies....well, based on your understanding, it would simply mean they weren’t “sincere” in their prayer or faith. Or, perhaps it is because they did not “apply the teachings correctly.” Anna, there is an appropriate and beneficial reason for professional counseling (outside of MasterPath and Gary Olsen).
And yes, Anna, it does show that your "Master" was/is wrong.

Do you ever stop and wonder if it IS the “inner master” or her own “soul” nudging her in seeking help “outside” of MP? Is that even remotely possible? Or, is it your interpretation that all help “outside” of your “master, inner and outer” is wrong?

Your cavalier and callous rebuttal to this experience contributed the most heat to the harshness of my previous response. Just so you know.

Originally Posted by annamalita

I have absolutely nothing bad to say about Sri Gary. His teachings work for me.

You don't know Gary Olsen. They aren't "his" teachings.

Originally Posted by annamalita

Sri Gary the man and also Denis both write books.

Read any new books lately?

Originally Posted by annamalita

Personally my own viewpoint is that those people who did not get on with the path didn't really understand it. Maybe they didn't apply the lessons correctly and therefore they did not get the results they wanted. ... I mean how you apply the exorcises and how really sincere you are within yourself. It's all too easy to blame others when you don't get the results you desired. Yet how many are honest enough to look at their own TRUE actions.

I know for sure, I've got more from Masterpath than I could ever have imagined yet I have very little contact with Sri Gary.

Personally, my own viewpoint is that people on the "path" don't really understand the realizations of the sincere folks who have left MasterPath. It is also my viewpoint that some “chelas” are like trained puppets.

Originally Posted by annamalita

Gary doesn't say he writes his own books. He may explain to someone else what he wants to write and someone else may write it for him. He was a painter and decorator as far as I know.

How do you know anything about the books of MP?

a decorator??? LOL.... really? what kind: floral, cake....

Anna, Gary was never a decorator, but it is sure interesting to read comments by chelas who think they know all there is to know about the MP, the "Master", and the L&S teachings.

Again, I apologize for the directness (or harshness) of the words written in the previous post. But frankly, I reached my threshold in hearing your "master's and his chelas" characterizations of our sincerity. It is our sincerity that led us to leave.

Anna, one more thought for you to ponder: you say that the “sound is not rational.” Does that explain why a chela murdered another chela?

[end_of_faith]

Originally Posted by Still_Kicking

I share all of this in the hope that it helps alleviate others suffering that I have known all too well. I believe it is time for all of us to move on.

Thank you Still_Kicking. Your posts and you have helped in more ways than I can say. And I agree that it is time to move on....

[Still_Kicking]

More from the Unfettered Mind website:

"Learned helplessness results from being trained to be locked into a system. The system may be a family, a community, a culture, a tradition, a profession or an institution."

- Don't think for a second that the MP isn't an institution, Gary created it.

I cannot emphasize enough, particularly for any former or current MP students, that they read this link on Learned Helplessness (http://www.unfetteredmind.com/articles/helplessness.php - broken link).


It really says so much that I cannot say enough. However there are a couple more lines that I think are worth mentioning here.

"All too often one or more of these aspects is distorted by the family system. Instead of love, the child experiences a demand for affection; instead of compassion, a fear of suffering; instead of joy, derision of his or her abilities; instead of equanimity, judgement."

- Yep the MP system that Gary has set up does exactly what is explained here.

"One of the primary characteristics of learned helplessness is that the person feels passive with respect to the system. The passivity, however, is only half the story."

"Whenever we are subjected to abuse, physical, emotional or spiritual, two patterns form inside us: the victim and the abuser. Our experience of being abused lays the basis for the victim pattern. Our experience of how abuse can be meted out lays the basis for the abuser pattern. Both give rise to learned helplessness, though the learned helplessness manifests differently. In the case of the abuser, learned helplessness might manifest as "Something just took over; I didn't mean to say or do that." In the case of the victim, it might manifest as "I don't know why I put up with it but I can't seem to do anything about it." In both cases, we are expressing passivity with respect to the patterns operating in us. In both cases, we are confessing helplessness."


-A couple things here, yep spiritual abuse exists, and from my experience Gary is one who is perpetrating that pattern. Secondly for sure that if you weren't a victim before joining the MP, you will be suffering from the abuse / abuser pattern when you get done with the MP, one way or another. And I speak from experience, not opinion.

There is more on this link and website that I highly suggest that every one reading this thread really read and understand for themselves, particularly the link. The answers on how to overcome this learned helplessness are there, it has worked for me.

For as much as I would like to see an end to the MP, I am not holding my breath for that. However perhaps Gary can go take some lessons on how to be a better spiritual teacher from the folks on the Unfettered Mind website, I think they offer classes for that.

In the end I have come to a conclusion that has yet to be contradicted, the MP induces a relationship with one's emotions & feelings that is dysfunctional in its effect and is continually perpetuated by the MP system.

Was there some issues there for me to resolve, sure yeah but the means and methods that the MP offered were ineffective for me. Looking at it another way if the MP way was such an effective way of addressing deep seated issues for many on the MP then there would be a more honest discourse taking place on the MP. I haven't seen that.

In fact the only real, honest discourse I've seen has been on this thread, at least it's honest.