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Now let me ask you a question, to all of you, what keeps us arguing who's right or wrong, instead of working for world unity? and perfect love and harmony among human beings, regardless of their race, religion, nationality, etc?
That's actually a very good question, and observation, TravellingFella. I know for myself, that although I do try not to get dragged into an argument, I still feel the need to give my opinion, when some folks insist on besmirching our Creator's character. I've been through the spiritual fear. I've been through the terror of the supposed fate of my "unsaved" family members, and friends, (indeed, the majority of mankind). I've been through the despondency of feeling that I couldn't live up to God's expectations, and perhaps I wasn't even really "saved", (which, of course, continued the cycle of fear, not to mention the feeling of hypocrisy)! I've sometimes even walked with the arrogance in my heart, that somehow I did have it right, and the other poor saps had it all wrong, even other denominations, (never mind different religions).
I've lived in the fundamentalist camp, so to speak, and because of the fear, the arrogance, and the hypocrisy I encountered there, (both in myself, and in others), coupled with the fact that so many fundamentalist Christians feel this pressing need to tell me how wrong I am, because I dare to think about God in a different manner, (i.e thinking outside of the box), I sometimes tend to get caught up in the compulsiveness of the whole situation. Although I would like to see folks look at God in a different way, my main reason, (if I am being gut-honest), for "getting into it", with the fundamentalists is because I get irritated when those same folks insist on judging my relationship with my Creator, when they should be minding their own. If they would take care of their own spirituality, and stop interfering with others', then I really wouldn't have much to say to them.
Actually, all religions believe in Christ, but it's given different names and not all religions see him as a human being, but rather an state of consciousness of pure and perfect love towards everything created by God, even Buddhism, which lacks the concept of a deity bases it's beliefs on this ideal of perfect love, once this state of consciousness is reached, we become one with our father, or truly awakened sons of God, all religions strive to this ideal so no one is wrong, if your religion can make you a better person, more patient, compassive, loving and happy, then there is no mistake or lack of righteousness.
so God is telling us the truth, we just make different interpretations of that truth, but we are all trying to reach the same goal, even atheists, most of them strive to be good fellas, just like us, how can this be if they don't believe in a deity? because there is an inner part of our beings, our very essence that strives for this state of consciousness, that's why I believe that even an atheist or agnostic that doubts or denies the existence of a deity, but works really hard and with a pure and sincere heart to be a good person will reach God.
Now let me ask you a question, to all of you, what keeps us arguing who's right or wrong, instead of working for world unity? and perfect love and harmony among human beings, regardless of their race, religion, nationality, etc?
Just a couple of points. All religions believe in something that we Christians call, not so much "Christ" as it is the Christ consciousness. We might just as easily call it the "Gautama consciousness" or the "Zarathustra consciousness" or anything else that fills our lives with goodness, benevolence and positive things.
The word "God" is fine but at this point I prefer The Almighty (I love the Spanish for it El Todopoderoso). I no longer feel comfortable personifying God with He or even She. Just my feeling about it.
I believe that when we cannot live in peace, love and harmony it is often the very ideas of race, religion and nationality used by people who employ these three elements as a crutch to cover what they might feel are their own inadequacies.
In a nutshell, I believe some overzealous folks really did a number on the Bible, that they horribly mistranslated, and sadly misinterpreted it, (and in some cases, deliberately twisted it, for their own power, lust, and greed). I didn't come to this point overnight, or on a whim. For the first time, I took a good long, hard look at the traditional Christian teachings on hell. I read up on the history of the early Christian church, etc. I made comparisons of Christian teachings, and Judaism, which is the root of Christianity. I compared scripture for scripture, and even here I found disagreement. I was finally willing to think outside of the box, (probably because I had always had niggling questions in the back of my brain, even as a kid, 'though I tried valiantly to ignore them. I was constantly beating them down, and shoving them into the farthest, darkest recesses of my mind. Which I strongly suspect is the case with many fundamentalist/evangelical Christians, 'though they would never admit it, because it would take them out of their comfort zone).
As I researched, studied, thought, (and yes, prayed), I finally came to believe that folks have been sold a bill of goods. I find it totally nonsensical to think that our Creator, of all beings, would act in a manner that would be roundly condemned, were he a human being. I'm not going to go into a long discourse, complete with Bible verses, (I'm hell-on-wheels when it comes to my own private researching and studying, but I'm just simply not that good at expository discourse. Nor, I might add, am I interested in doing someone else's legwork for them), but suffice it to say that I am satisfied with my conclusions. Obviously, they are my own, and I certainly don't expect someone else to take my word for it, or agree with me. As I told JennaFlorrie, believe as you choose.
Well if the Bible was just a Book that was put together to benefit the few, who would then use it to control the less informed, you might have a valid point. Sadly, many who claim to follow the Bible often do so for the very reasons you have given. I'm sure they will go to their reward. Yet, if the Bible was written just by the overzealous, that in it self would not explain the accuracy of the Bibles prophecies. And many of those detailed prophecies are happening in the day we live. Certainly the author of the Bible must of been someone with advanced knowledge of future events. How would you explain the Bibles accuracy, unless God Himself was in control of the Bibles content?
Not all faiths tell you that other faiths are wrong or with errors, some faiths believe in this phillosophy: One destination, many roads.
God loves diversity, and he gave us free will to worship and understand him in the way we please, as long as this leads us to virtue
For Christians, Christ is their savior, but do you really believe that just by accepting him you earned your place in heaven? or that you have to try your hardest to become like Christ to get there?
Actually, all religions believe in Christ, but it's given different names and not all religions see him as a human being, but rather an state of consciousness of pure and perfect love towards everything created by God, even Buddhism, which lacks the concept of a deity bases it's beliefs on this ideal of perfect love, once this state of consciousness is reached, we become one with our father, or truly awakened sons of God, all religions strive to this ideal so no one is wrong, if your religion can make you a better person, more patient, compassive, loving and happy, then there is no mistake or lack of righteousness.
so God is telling us the truth, we just make different interpretations of that truth, but we are all trying to reach the same goal, even atheists, most of them strive to be good fellas, just like us, how can this be if they don't believe in a deity? because there is an inner part of our beings, our very essence that strives for this state of consciousness, that's why I believe that even an atheist or agnostic that doubts or denies the existence of a deity, but works really hard and with a pure and sincere heart to be a good person will reach God.
Now let me ask you a question, to all of you, what keeps us arguing who's right or wrong, instead of working for world unity? and perfect love and harmony among human beings, regardless of their race, religion, nationality, etc?
Well my Bible tells me there will be no world unity until Christ returns to this world. And my Bible tells me that Christ will only have one name, not many. And my Bible tells me that when Christ returns, the world will not be happy to see Him, but will mourn when they see His return. And my Bible tells me that near the time of the end, and Christ return, we will see the Jews returning to the land of Israel. The Bible states that the Jews will retake Jerusalem back by force. And the worlds attention will be focused on the control of Jerusalem. It is Biblical truth, that keeps my eyes on Jesus Christ. You will not find this kind of truth in other world religions.
You're being misled if you think its all the same and there are different paths. Get away from that doctrine as fast as you can. There's Jesus, then there's man and his delusions, and easily transparent philosophies. There might be different paths heh, but they don't all lead to the same place. That is for certain. There are plenty of spiritual people, probably most of the world because its part of humans. But religion and spirituality are empty. They're just phrases, words, philosophy, and nothing more.
He has a name, and his words are right there in front of the worlds face. Every other religion can fit in to universalism and unity, except Jesus' teachings. That is because the world is the fake, the fraud, and Jesus is the REAL DEAL. He said it when he was here, and he died and rose again to everyone. Nothing else comes close. No one else ever raised their body from the dead. Jesus' teachings are not compatible with the world. The world is a counterfeit. So you will have to choose one or the other.
Im not looking for universal philosophy to save me. It has never saved man in the history of the world. Its obvious man is flawed. I will maintain there is ONE, and only ONE path to the father. People teaching anything less about the Bible have no business teaching at all, and in fact are not the salt of the Earth.
You heard his words, and they're plain and simple to understand. Quit trying to bend them to fit this world. They wont, and can not. He is going to erase every bit of this counterfeit world. Truth will shatter this world. So don't get too comfy holding on to worldly doctrines. They will be wiped out by the sword of his mouth just as he says.
The narrow path is the real one, and the one much less taken.
Last edited by the_pines; 06-28-2008 at 09:23 AM..
You're being misled if you think its all the same and there are different paths. Get away from that doctrine as fast as you can. There's Jesus, then there's man and his delusions, and easily transparent philosophies. There might be different paths heh, but they don't all lead to the same place. That is for certain. There are plenty of spiritual people, probably most of the world because its part of humans. But religion and spirituality are empty. They're just phrases, words, philosophy, and nothing more.
He has a name, and his words are right there in front of the worlds face. Every other religion can fit in to universalism and unity, except Jesus' teachings. That is because the world is the fake, the fraud, and Jesus is the REAL DEAL. He said it when he was here, and he died and rose again to everyone. Nothing else comes close. No one else ever raised their body from the dead. Jesus' teachings are not compatible with the world. The world is a counterfeit. So you will have to choose one or the other.
Im not looking for universal philosophy to save me. It has never saved man in the history of the world. Its obvious man is flawed. I will maintain there is ONE, and only ONE path to the father. People teaching anything less about the Bible have no business teaching at all, and in fact are not the salt of the Earth.
You heard his words, and they're plain and simple to understand. Quit trying to bend them to fit this world. They wont, and can not. He is going to erase every bit of this counterfeit world. Truth will shatter this world. So don't get too comfy holding on to worldly doctrines. They will be wiped out by the sword of his mouth just as he says.
The narrow path is the real one, and the one much less taken.
So two thirds of the world who never heard of either Christianity or Jesus just don't have a chance? Sounds pretty elitist to me but then I have heard Buddhists, Muslims and Hindus etc all say the same thing. Of course it cannot be proved one way or another so we can say what we please but at the reckoning hour, we'll know. IMO You are your own salvation. If you put it on the shoulders of people who existed 2000, 4000, or 6000 years ago your lazy.
No those that do not have the word are judged by Jesus according to their hearts, as said in the Bible. Just because they don't know of him doesn't mean they aren't tested in their lives. Everyone is put to the test. The Judge stays the same.
You're being misled if you think its all the same and there are different paths. Get away from that doctrine as fast as you can. There's Jesus, then there's man and his delusions, and easily transparent philosophies. There might be different paths heh, but they don't all lead to the same place. That is for certain. There are plenty of spiritual people, probably most of the world because its part of humans. But religion and spirituality are empty. They're just phrases, words, philosophy, and nothing more.
He has a name, and his words are right there in front of the worlds face. Every other religion can fit in to universalism and unity, except Jesus' teachings. That is because the world is the fake, the fraud, and Jesus is the REAL DEAL. He said it when he was here, and he died and rose again to everyone. Nothing else comes close. No one else ever raised their body from the dead. Jesus' teachings are not compatible with the world. The world is a counterfeit. So you will have to choose one or the other.
Im not looking for universal philosophy to save me. It has never saved man in the history of the world. Its obvious man is flawed. I will maintain there is ONE, and only ONE path to the father. People teaching anything less about the Bible have no business teaching at all, and in fact are not the salt of the Earth.
You heard his words, and they're plain and simple to understand. Quit trying to bend them to fit this world. They wont, and can not. He is going to erase every bit of this counterfeit world. Truth will shatter this world. So don't get too comfy holding on to worldly doctrines. They will be wiped out by the sword of his mouth just as he says.
The narrow path is the real one, and the one much less taken.
Supposing that 'god' exists then how is it omnibenevolent to send a moral atheist that lived in America to be tortured in flames for all eternity for something as menial as not accepting their existence. This doesn't sound like a very nice or compassionate deity. Why not reward compassion goodness and rationality. Assuming there is a judgement day and a god, how can a Christian, Muslim, Jew etc. even possibly know that their god will be the the entity that is going to be judging them. There is zero evidence that any such entity exists. If there is a judgement day, it is equally likely that the entity that will be judging someone will be an invisible cobra with the wrath of Kali.
How is the world fake or fraudulent. There's more evidence for the real world than there is for Jesus.
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom9
So two thirds of the world who never heard of either Christianity or Jesus just don't have a chance? Sounds pretty elitist to me but then I have heard Buddhists, Muslims and Hindus etc all say the same thing. Of course it cannot be proved one way or another so we can say what we please but at the reckoning hour, we'll know. IMO You are your own salvation. If you put it on the shoulders of people who existed 2000, 4000, or 6000 years ago your lazy.
Neither Buddhist, nor Hindus, believe that their religion is the only way, or that others who believe something different won't be freed
Buddhist believe that anyone can become a Buddha, and Hindus believe in:
*Ekam Sat Vipra Bahudha Vadanti: (One Truth; Many Names and Forms) The realization that the spirit assumes infinite forms.
*Advaita & Divaita: Spiritual-Reality is non-dual (absolute) and dual (relative) or "One and Many." (Therefore, Hinduism does not claim to be an only way but rather respects all sincere religious paths.)
Both Hindus and Buddhists, rather than seeking salvation, seek liberation or Moksha, from the reincarnational round, and this is attained by our own effort, although in the case of hindus, a guru usually guides the seeker, only humans who have recovered their unity with spirit and are trully freed can be gurus, they can be still on the physical plane or not.
No those that do not have the word are judged by Jesus according to their hearts, as said in the Bible. Just because they don't know of him doesn't mean they aren't tested in their lives. Everyone is put to the test. The Judge stays the same.
No this is not true. It is elitist. The Buddhist say you must have the Buddha nature to asccend to heaven. Do you know what the Buddha nature is? You also sound like a Protestant. That's fine except for me, I am a Catholic and I certainly don't want to be beholden to a bunch of Protestants for all eternity so I think I'll go to Catholic heaven. How about Muslims? They seem to be as convinIced as you that their way is the right path...it is...for them. Do you want a bunch of Sunnis running around your heaven. After what I have heard and read from evangelic Protestant religious leaders I don't think you'sd be happy with muslims in your heaven. Leave well enough a lone. Instead of worrying about everyone else's destiny take care of your own.
You have you beliefs I have mine. I respect yours and refuse to throw mine in your face because you seem happy with yours. I can assure you that I am happy with mine so please don't tell me I am going to hell because my beliefs are different from yours. That in itself is a form of evil as far as I am concerned.
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