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Old 06-15-2008, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,915 posts, read 18,630,095 times
Reputation: 5524

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Oakback wrote:
Quote:
Current evolutionary theory ( I'm no expert ) has too many significant holes in it. That's not to say there is no scientific explanation to the developement of our current world, it's just that the current one's are lacking.
I've really studied evolution and consider it to be a fact based on the evidence. The one major thing that we really don't understand is the transformation of non living material to single celled life which is known as abiogenesis. We certainly can't claim to know all of the answers but the scientific method is the only effective means of gaining an understanding of nature and how life came into existence. At the rate that human knowledge is expanding it seems probable that at some point in the future we'll have a clear understanding of physics, the origins of life, and many questions will be answered. When you consider how much we've learned in just the last century it seems inevitable.
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Old 06-15-2008, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,493 posts, read 7,344,758 times
Reputation: 1510
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
Oakback wrote:

I've really studied evolution and consider it to be a fact based on the evidence. The one major thing that we really don't understand is the transformation of non living material to single celled life which is known as abiogenesis. We certainly can't claim to know all of the answers but the scientific method is the only effective means of gaining an understanding of nature and how life came into existence. At the rate that human knowledge is expanding it seems probable that at some point in the future we'll have a clear understanding of physics, the origins of life, and many questions will be answered. When you consider how much we've learned in just the last century it seems inevitable.


Your probably right
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Old 06-15-2008, 10:30 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 3,494,052 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
Preterist wrote:

You have that exactly backwards, it's the creationists who are always scrambling to make up some explanation for anything that contradicts the six thousand year creation story. Scientists who have made the calculations for the percentage of species that are extinct are just making observations about what is known from the fossil record and are not doing it to attack creationism as you seem to suggest. The Bible actually gives two separate descriptions of what animals Noah took aboard the arc which contradict each other. I'm going by the first version which states that Noah took a male and female of every single land animal and that is what most creationists also believe. I'm merely pointing out why this story doesn't make any sense when Noah is supposed to have saved all of the land animals and yet 99% of them are extinct and I am asking what happened to them. What facts or statistics do you think are being made up? You can go into any big natural history museum and see the fossils of animals that are extinct right under your nose.
Are specific animals identified that were taken onto the Ark? Which specific animals are you referring to that are now extinct? Where do you get the 99%? What about the rest of my post? Please explain the great complexities of the human body and the fact that man reasons and loves and hates and mourns, etc. Explain the life in the blood! Explain why the eye sees and the ear hears! Explain why the heart beats? Explain the many, many impulses of the brain which pass each other in a complicated system of patterns.

The human eye is no bigger than a ping pong ball, yet it has MILLIONS of electrical connections that handle 1 1/2 MILLION messages all at the same time. The eye also has chambers filled with fluid which allow light to pass through. This light is then focused by the lens so that it can fall on the retina (the thin wall at the back of the eye). The retina is less than one inch square YET it has approximately 137 MILLION light-sensitive cells. Some are rod shaped for black and white vision; others are cone-shaped which permits us to see color! The optive nerve is what transports signals at approximately 300 miles per hour to the brain. The brain interprets these signals so that we can see! What makes all of this work? And what caused it to work in the first place? This is just one of the myriad of systems functioning automatically in the human body. They are all best explained by intelligent design and not by random evolution?

The blood cells in our bodies are replaced approximately every 120 days. Why? What told them to do that? Most of our cells, in fact, are constantly being replaced. What told them to do that? The human adult has approximately 75,000 MILES of blood vessels. The blood within these vessels take fresh oxygen and food to the body's cells and remove carbon dioxide and other waste products. These are just the red blood cells. What told them to do what they do? What organized all of these 75,000 miles of blood vessels into their intricate, life-giving patterns? What caused the white blood cells which fight diseases from germs and viruses? What tells the body to quickly develop an antibody to fight a particular disease that enters it? Each adult human has approximately one MILLION of these antibodies. And the totally amazing thing is this--once the body develops a particular antibody for a particular disease, it remembers it so that when that same germ or virus attacks again, the antibody is already there to quickly attack! Why does it do that? I could go on and on. And that would just include the wonders of the human body. There are countless complexities and intricacies found in the plant and animal kingdoms as well that cannot be reasonably explained by chance!

It is only a blinded fool, who refuses to accept a personal God to whom he is accountable, who could "reason" away such complexities and leave his logic at the doors of the Museum of Natural History!

What facts do "scientists" make up? The biggest "facts" concern the things I have just posted. Did all the intricate and vastly complex systems in the human body happened by chance?

"The fool has said in his heart 'there is no God'."

Preterist
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Old 06-15-2008, 10:36 AM
 
428 posts, read 1,631,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preterist View Post
Did all the intricate and vastly complex systems in the human body happened by chance?

Preterist
No! And no scientist would say they did. They happened through evolution by natural selection.
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Old 06-15-2008, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,915 posts, read 18,630,095 times
Reputation: 5524
Preterist wrote:
Quote:
Are specific animals identified that were taken onto the Ark? Which specific animals are you referring to that are now extinct? Where do you get the 99%? What about the rest of my post? Please explain the great complexities of the human body and the fact that man reasons and loves and hates and mourns, etc. Explain the life in the blood! Explain why the eye sees and the ear hears! Explain why the heart beats? Explain the many, many impulses of the brain which pass each other in a complicated system of patterns.
First of all the Bible states that all animals were taken onto the ark so I don't think we need to write up a list, "all" is self explanatory. There are too many animals that are extinct for me to start naming all of them but it's obvious that all of the species of dinosaurs are extinct along with massive numbers of marine species and land animals. I remember the 99% from books that I've read and it's really just a matter of adding up the species that we know are alive today and the species we know to be extinct to come up with an approximate answer. There are many new species we're finding all the time that are both living and extinct so you can't place an exact figure on it but 99% is very close. Adding numbers up and calculating a percentage isn't exactly rocket science and this 99% has been known a very long time.
As far as the complexity of life is concerned evolution answers all of the questions you raised. I know you don't want it to be true but it is. We have a detailed fossil record which proves conclusively that creationism within a young earth scenario is impossible and that there never was a time period in which all species coexisted. We have a record of new species appearing and others going extinct which is what prompted me to start this topic.
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Old 06-15-2008, 01:41 PM
 
2,630 posts, read 4,941,422 times
Reputation: 596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preterist View Post
Are specific animals identified that were taken onto the Ark? Which specific animals are you referring to that are now extinct? Where do you get the 99%? What about the rest of my post? Please explain the great complexities of the human body and the fact that man reasons and loves and hates and mourns, etc. Explain the life in the blood! Explain why the eye sees and the ear hears! Explain why the heart beats? Explain the many, many impulses of the brain which pass each other in a complicated system of patterns.

The human eye is no bigger than a ping pong ball, yet it has MILLIONS of electrical connections that handle 1 1/2 MILLION messages all at the same time. The eye also has chambers filled with fluid which allow light to pass through. This light is then focused by the lens so that it can fall on the retina (the thin wall at the back of the eye). The retina is less than one inch square YET it has approximately 137 MILLION light-sensitive cells. Some are rod shaped for black and white vision; others are cone-shaped which permits us to see color! The optive nerve is what transports signals at approximately 300 miles per hour to the brain. The brain interprets these signals so that we can see! What makes all of this work? And what caused it to work in the first place? This is just one of the myriad of systems functioning automatically in the human body. They are all best explained by intelligent design and not by random evolution?

The blood cells in our bodies are replaced approximately every 120 days. Why? What told them to do that? Most of our cells, in fact, are constantly being replaced. What told them to do that? The human adult has approximately 75,000 MILES of blood vessels. The blood within these vessels take fresh oxygen and food to the body's cells and remove carbon dioxide and other waste products. These are just the red blood cells. What told them to do what they do? What organized all of these 75,000 miles of blood vessels into their intricate, life-giving patterns? What caused the white blood cells which fight diseases from germs and viruses? What tells the body to quickly develop an antibody to fight a particular disease that enters it? Each adult human has approximately one MILLION of these antibodies. And the totally amazing thing is this--once the body develops a particular antibody for a particular disease, it remembers it so that when that same germ or virus attacks again, the antibody is already there to quickly attack! Why does it do that? I could go on and on. And that would just include the wonders of the human body. There are countless complexities and intricacies found in the plant and animal kingdoms as well that cannot be reasonably explained by chance!

It is only a blinded fool, who refuses to accept a personal God to whom he is accountable, who could "reason" away such complexities and leave his logic at the doors of the Museum of Natural History!

What facts do "scientists" make up? The biggest "facts" concern the things I have just posted. Did all the intricate and vastly complex systems in the human body happened by chance?

"The fool has said in his heart 'there is no God'."

Preterist
This is called a Gish gallop, it was made famous by Duane Gish. I have to say its more effective in debates.

Duane Gish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 06-15-2008, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,559 posts, read 37,160,046 times
Reputation: 14017
Wow...I think he may be posting here under a couple of aliases..Thanks for the link, I had not heard of him before.
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Old 06-15-2008, 03:37 PM
 
2,630 posts, read 4,941,422 times
Reputation: 596
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Wow...I think he may be posting here under a couple of aliases..Thanks for the link, I had not heard of him before.
Hes quite an annoying fella, the thing is that you could easily make a >100 post thread for every question raised but because they are all asked consecutively then it puts the opposition in a position where he/she can't answer any. Its specially bad on televised debates because each side is only given 5 minutes.
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Old 06-15-2008, 04:04 PM
 
7,628 posts, read 10,974,269 times
Reputation: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord View Post
Do you think every little detailed thing that happened on the earth was recorded in the Bible? There is no mention of saving ALL the animals in existance. Did they know that the earth was round? Were there other continents then as well as now? Could it be possible that Noah didn't even know dinosaurs existed because they were on the other side of the world? Hmmmm......millions of possibilities. God can take out millions of species by mass extinction at any time, including ours.
The Book of Job speaks of dinosaurs, and ancient art depicts dinosaurs. I have no doubt that Noah knew about dinosaurs.
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Old 06-15-2008, 04:08 PM
 
7,628 posts, read 10,974,269 times
Reputation: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
Preterist wrote:

First of all the Bible states that all animals were taken onto the ark so I don't think we need to write up a list, "all" is self explanatory. There are too many animals that are extinct for me to start naming all of them but it's obvious that all of the species of dinosaurs are extinct along with massive numbers of marine species and land animals. I remember the 99% from books that I've read and it's really just a matter of adding up the species that we know are alive today and the species we know to be extinct to come up with an approximate answer. There are many new species we're finding all the time that are both living and extinct so you can't place an exact figure on it but 99% is very close. Adding numbers up and calculating a percentage isn't exactly rocket science and this 99% has been known a very long time.
As far as the complexity of life is concerned evolution answers all of the questions you raised. I know you don't want it to be true but it is. We have a detailed fossil record which proves conclusively that creationism within a young earth scenario is impossible and that there never was a time period in which all species coexisted. We have a record of new species appearing and others going extinct which is what prompted me to start this topic.
There are thousands of breeds of dogs as well but it would be foolish to believe they all had to exist at the same time.
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