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I want to start this post of to say thank you to all the Agnostics and Atheist on the forums. You guys have been a great deal of support and knowledge. I don’t post much but I am always reading what you guys thank and have to say. GCSTroop and MontanaGuy you two are probably some of the smartest people on these boards and your words are not blinded by religion. The things you say are always thought out and true. I wish there where more groups of people brought together by there non beliefs. Why can’t we have a support system and help each other out. I know a lot of atheist that strive to live the best life possible and are down to earth good people.
I guess my point is, I feel that I am always being judged for whom we are and what believe. I served my country, help people, love my family, try and be a good citizen I know many Christians that couldn’t say that. Last night I had to go to a wedding party for my sister in law she’s getting married today. Well the guy she’s marrying is going to school to become a pastor (why you would get a degree in bible study is beyond me) guess they don’t tell you half of it is blatant lies or fairy tales. Any way I was uncomfortable the whole time all the toast where about god this and that. I don’t understand how so many people could dedicate so much of there lives to something we can’t touch, sense, smell, hear, or feel. We only get one life here yet so many spend it worshiping an invisible man who has never been seen. Not only that there are 9,000 other religions who have been around since the beginning of time, why live you life based on a book written by man that’s out dated and makes no sense what so ever (yes I have read it)
I would just like people to be more understanding to our point of views, I don’t drive around with my car full of Darwin stickers, I don’t go around preaching at Christians how there wasting there life, or how there brainwashed. I have my own opinions and don’t force them on anyone not even when I have kids. I will teach them what I know and let them decided no brainwash the **** out of them. People need to get more educated in this country because this country isn’t going to move ahead its going to keep falling behind.
Last edited by Karrsquest; 06-08-2008 at 09:46 AM..
Thanks for the compliment. It's very clear to me that an atheist can live a constructive and moral life that's not tied to a religious belief. I do try to present my thoughts in a positive manner. I realize that in the US there is certainly a stigma with the word atheist, particularly in more conservative areas like the south where I moved to recently. Thanks to the internet I think that atheists and agnostics do have the ability to be supportive of each other and that's a good thing because we make up such a small percentage of the total population it's very rare for me to actually meet another atheist in person. I do think that everyone is entitled to believe what they want and I completely support the freedom of religion even though I'm not religious. I also support the separation of church and state which the founding fathers had the wisdom to establish. I'm hopeful that in the future that atheism and the philosophy of humanism will be seen in a more positive way by the general public and that more people will gain an understanding of how atheists can be productive and moral people.
I want to start this post of to say thank you to all the Agnostics and Atheist on the forums. You guys have been a great deal of support and knowledge. I don’t post much but I am always reading what you guys thank and have to say. GCSTroop and MontanaGuy you two are probably some of the smartest people on these boards and your words are not blinded by religion. The things you say are always thought out and true. I wish there where more groups of people brought together by there non beliefs. Why can’t we have a support system and help each other out. I know a lot of atheist that strive to live the best life possible and are down to earth good people.
I guess my point is, I feel that I am always being judged for whom we are and what believe. I served my country, help people, love my family, try and be a good citizen I know many Christians that couldn’t say that. Last night I had to go to a wedding party for my sister in law she’s getting married today. Well the guy she’s marrying is going to school to become a pastor (why you would get a degree in bible study is beyond me) guess they don’t tell you half of it is blatant lies or fairy tales. Any way I was uncomfortable the whole time all the toast where about god this and that. I don’t understand how so many people could dedicate so much of there lives to something we can’t touch, sense, smell, hear, or feel. We only get one life here yet so many spend it worshiping an invisible man who has never been seen. Not only that there are 9,000 other religions who have been around since the beginning of time, why live you life based on a book written by man that’s out dated and makes no sense what so ever (yes I have read it)
I would just like people to be more understanding to our point of views, I don’t drive around with my car full of Darwin stickers, I don’t go around preaching at Christians how there wasting there life, or how there brainwashed. I have my own opinions and don’t force them on anyone not even when I have kids. I will teach them what I know and let them decided no brainwash the **** out of them. People need to get more educated in this country because this country isn’t going to move ahead its going to keep falling behind.
This board has very interesting threads from all sorts of people with all sorts of beliefs. As an agnostic teetering athiest I have to say that you were a little rude about people who do have religious faith. In fact, I would go so far as to say that you were as insulting to them as some of the more rabid evangelicals have been to athiests (catholics, mormons, etc...).
It is Ok to believe or not to believe in my book.......but really, you shouldn't be offensive about it. Nobody wants an evangelical athiest
This board has very interesting threads from all sorts of people with all sorts of beliefs. As an agnostic teetering athiest I have to say that you were a little rude about people who do have religious faith. In fact, I would go so far as to say that you were as insulting to them as some of the more rabid evangelicals have been to athiests (catholics, mormons, etc...).
It is Ok to believe or not to believe in my book.......but really, you shouldn't be offensive about it. Nobody wants an evangelical athiest
I have to agree with this. OP, it's fine that you want to post a "thank you" to those who support your point of view but the insults to believers that you included in your post sort of make the whole message worthless. You just proved the point that some atheists can be just as insulting as some Christians are when discussing their beliefs (or lack thereof) with others.
First paragraph I thanked members of the forum, 2nd I stated how Christians make me feel as if I am inferior and the final I state that people should be more supportive of us agnostics and atheists, so you can twist it and think I am bashing you but I really wasn’t. I am every open minded and think people can believe what ever they want yes even tom cruise and his alien spirits... maybe he knows something we don’t lol.
I have just felt frustrated lately and was venting some frustration so if you don’t understand how I feel then you haven’t been in my shoes and really shouldn’t comment.
Montana guy, I so agree with the founding fathers, but lately people think its there duty to get there religious beliefs passed as laws and into politics , something about restoring the country to is Christians roots, when the founding fathers where far from it. I feel as a result its hurting this country and keeping us behind when we could be advancing and becoming a better society. They wanted it separate for a reason… no every one has the same beliefs.
First paragraph I thanked members of the forum, 2nd I stated how Christians make me feel as if I am inferior and the final I state that people should be more supportive of us agnostics and atheists, so you can twist it and think I am bashing you but I really wasn’t. I am every open minded and think people can believe what ever they want yes even tom cruise and his alien spirits... maybe he knows something we don’t lol.
I have just felt frustrated lately and was venting some frustration so if you don’t understand how I feel then you haven’t been in my shoes and really shouldn’t comment.
Montana guy, I so agree with the founding fathers, but lately people think its there duty to get there religious beliefs passed as laws and into politics , something about restoring the country to is Christians roots, when the founding fathers where far from it. I feel as a result its hurting this country and keeping us behind when we could be advancing and becoming a better society. They wanted it separate for a reason… no every one has the same beliefs.
Look, when you use phrases like "fairy tales" and "brainwashing" when describing religion you really are just as bad as those that call Catholics pagans and athiests as damned.
It's just rude.
And we know what it is like, and even though we do not have the threat of eternal damnation hanging over our collective heads to make sure we behave --- we as athiests and agnostics know better. In fact, I would say it is even more important for us to not demonize or trivialize others belief systems. Call it role modeling or the golden rule.......it benefits noone to stoop to name calling just because you have been called names.
Thats all I'm saying......
Look, when you use phrases like "fairy tales" and "brainwashing" when describing religion you really are just as bad as those that call Catholics pagans and athiests as damned.
It's just rude.
And we know what it is like, and even though we do not have the threat of eternal damnation hanging over our collective heads to make sure we behave --- we as athiests and agnostics know better. In fact, I would say it is even more important for us to not demonize or trivialize others belief systems. Call it role modeling or the golden rule.......it benefits noone to stoop to name calling just because you have been called names.
Thats all I'm saying......
Ill keep that in mind, I was a little frustrated at the time I posted and didnt mean to offend anyone so sorry in advance
I would just like people to be more understanding to our point of views,
More understanding, like how you are understanding of their views:
Quote:
Well the guy she’s marrying is going to school to become a pastor (why you would get a degree in bible study is beyond me) guess they don’t tell you half of it is blatant lies or fairy tales.
More understanding, like how you are understanding of their views:
Thats one heck of a contradictory post.
If you would of read further down I stated " I have just felt frustrated lately and was venting some frustration so if you don’t understand how I feel then you haven’t been in my shoes and really shouldn’t comment"
I ALSO APOLOGIZED FURTHER DOWN IN THE POSTINGS.
People are allowed to say things when there upset , better to let it out then hold it all in.
Oh btw the earth being 3,000 years old is a lie so I wasn't contradicting my self
Thank you for the kind words. I didn't see this post until just now. I appreciate the thoughts.
I do understand that it can be very frustrating in real life. I ran through a similar situation recently with a co-worker. Not to dredge up old news, but I did learn a few things from it.
I don't necessarily agree with religion at all. In fact, I think it's done a lot of harm to the world; I also realize that not every single person interested in faith or who holds a strong belief in God (any God) is a bad person. I think what is frustrating is being approached on the matter and made to feel like a second-class citizen if the topic does come up. While some people seem genuinely surprised when you inform them of your non-belief and are genuinely curious; others see it is a challenge and/or a "venture" to try and convert. While I don't fully understand the situation in entirety, as I wasn't there, it's hard for me to make a determination of what may or may not have transpired.
Only you can really make the determination as to what was going on at the wedding and how you perceived it. Did he approach you and demand that you repent and give your life to Jesus? Or was he just making a few toasts at a time when many people feel very religious (the wedding)? While I can understand there are things within certain religions that we may all roll our eyes at from the atheist standpoint people do indeed take it seriously. Now, if they take it so seriously that they feel they must try to invade your lifestyle with their own brand then I think that you have every right to stand firm on your opinions.
However, this doesn't necessarily reserve the right to become flippant and angry with them. Responding to the question "What is your religion?" can be a tricky question in American society. So, you have to do a little calculation in your head as to what is going on. Is it a question based on a prior conversation such as mine was? Or, perhaps a question asked as you open your door to two young teenagers dressed in button down white-sleeve t-shirts and ties who are waving a Bible in your face? Perhaps it's a question someone was just asking as a "Get to know you" type of thing. I know where I live that this is a very common thing almost seen as the "norm" for new neighbors and the like. The fact is, only you can gauge the tone of the conversation and where it's heading. However, I think it always does pay to sit back at first and see where it's going to head after you make your opening remarks such as "I am an Atheist, Agnostic, Non-Theist, Deist, etc..."
I can tell you that in my situation, that at the onset of being asked why I was an Atheist I did feel a little uncomfortable. Not because I was scared of being converted as I'm utterly hopeless as far as that is concerned. I was more uncomfortable in how I have been treated in the past as a result of a proclamation of Atheism and this question was being asked from a co-worker who was indeed a very strong Christian whom I have had a very genuinely good working relationship with. So, I was indeed a little uncomfortable in how he may perceive me. Some people jump up on the podium and start belching Biblical verse to you and some are genuinely sincere in that they have never met someone who claimed that and are just curious as to how it all may end up. So, I did handle it calmly, explained my position, and hoped that he respected it. Because, we're all worthy and we should all hope that our opinions are respected if asked nicely. There were a few times where things came up that depending on the person could have been seen as challenging or downright irritating but I also had to keep it in perspective as to the whole situation (co-worker, I otherwise get along with the guy very well, etc..) I must admit, after the fact, my brain started kicking into gear thinking about all of the possibilities of what may or may not happen at my workplace if people found out.
All in all, he ended up bringing the conversation up two more times (once so briefly that I don't even know if I should count it) but it seems we have reconciled that difference and we still work together almost every night. So, yes, things can be worked out but it's not always a perfect situation either. He could have been extremely hard-headed and irrational about it as well as could I have been. I came on here and I posted and asked for people's advice on the matter before it progressed any further. I think I can say I received mostly what I was looking for, the situation was settled, and that was that.
So, try to keep the bigger picture in perspective as well. Choose your battles wisely, don't make it a point to denigrate people's opinions, and for the most part, I think that most will choose not to denigrate yours. But, in all of that, I can also understand your frustration and why you vented. Really. I can.
I hope that helps, or even made sense.
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