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That would be Christian speak for ...
Sit down
Shut up
Don't ask questions and just BELIEVE.
Funny!
Well, I’ve always responded to the “know” part as a “KNOWINGNESS” not embedded in any belief system — perhaps similar but not the same as a “gut feeling” or an “intuitive” feeling.
Words can’t really go there, it’s just a knowingness of God (I am comfortable using that word but others are not) sans any beliefs or religious ideology—although I do “believe” in God — LOL
TRANSPONDER — you make some good insights and points in post #470, but there was too much to respond to, so I’ll just pick one or two points.
A mystical experience is just that — an “experience.”
Experiences come and they go.
Sometimes they can open amazing doors of perception and clarity. Buddhism and Advaita are rich with teachings on the impermanence of all things. Quantum Physics teaches us the same
properties of mutability. What I spoke of was more than just an experience.
Ramana Maharshi once said “Let come what comes, let go what goes. See what remains.”
The only thing that doesn’t come and go for me is the experience of God which has always remained and manifested as a quiet aware presence that never changes, but that I have access to and a profound relationship with. It is not the same as your unconverts realizing they were just talking to themselves in prayer.
It is more about listening. There is inquiry, and there are deep insights and answers, but not in the same way the mind spins stories, answers, and emotional feedback. I know from years of meditation the difference between the mind’s yapping and spiritual awareness.
LOL —sorry if this is sounding like new age woo woo — words can point, but so inadequately.
I came from a family of proud atheists. My father belonged to Mensa. I clearly didn’t inherit the genius gene, but did grow up learning the importance of good critical thinking skills, the ability to argue both sides of a debate, and a respect for rational thinking.
I tried very hard to be an atheist as it was so much EASIER than dealing with existential angst or believing that the profound creativity and intelligence behind this vast universe and all that inhabits it could possibly be just from a chance roll of the dice. From a young age, I deeply suspected there was some intelligent creative force behind all this amazingly complex reality we experience as humans.
So imagine my surprise when in college I had a profound spiritual awakening through a Christian friend. There were perennial truths I found in parts of the Bible and some of the teachings of Jesus that became a portal or doorway for experiencing God.
Although I had decades of turmoil and change over my relationship to many of the Biblical teachings and Christian doctrine, my experience and relationship with “God” never changed. It is what has “remained”....
And that was what I was asking of the OP — if they had a relationship just with God, and if so, could they separate it from Catholicism or other organized religions.
Last edited by mountainrose; 08-13-2019 at 03:57 PM..
Except that wasn't necessary.
If you had ever read the bible at least once in your life, then you'd know everyone is cleansed of their sins, so there was no reason to die.
TRANSPONDER — you make some good insights and points in post #470, but there was too much to respond to, so I’ll just pick one or two points.
A mystical experience is just that — an “experience.”
Experiences come and they go.
Sometimes they can open amazing doors of perception and clarity. Buddhism and Advaita are rich with teachings on the impermanence of all things. Quantum Physics teaches us the same
properties of mutability. What I spoke of was more than just an experience.
Ramana Maharshi once said “Let come what comes, let go what goes. See what remains.”
The only thing that doesn’t come and go for me is the experience of God which has always remained and manifested as a quiet aware presence that never changes, but that I have access to and a profound relationship with. It is not the same as your unconverts realizing they were just talking to themselves in prayer.
It is more about listening. There is inquiry, and there are deep insights and answers, but not in the same way the mind spins stories, answers, and emotional feedback. I know from years of meditation the difference between the mind’s yapping and spiritual awareness.
LOL —sorry if this is sounding like new age woo woo — words can point, but so inadequately.
I came from a family of proud atheists. My father belonged to Mensa. I clearly didn’t inherit the genius gene, but did grow up learning the importance of good critical thinking skills, the ability to argue both sides of a debate, and a respect for rational thinking.
I tried very hard to be an atheist as it was so much EASIER than dealing with existential angst or believing that the profound creativity and intelligence behind this vast universe and all that inhabits it could possibly be just from a chance roll of the dice. From a young age, I deeply suspected there was some intelligent creative force behind all this amazingly complex reality we experience as humans.
So imagine my surprise when in college I had a profound spiritual awakening through a Christian friend. There were perennial truths I found in parts of the Bible and some of the teachings of Jesus that became a portal or doorway for experiencing God.
Although I had decades of turmoil and change over my relationship to many of the Biblical teachings and Christian doctrine, my experience and relationship with “God” never changed. It is what has “remained”....
And that was what I was asking of the OP — if they had a relationship just with God, and if so, could they separate it from Catholicism or other organized religions.
I won't comment on a person raised atheist coming to an 'experience of God'. You believe what you believe and that's all there is to it. I've already explained why it wouldn't persuade me, but you weren't trying to, I'm sure.
It's a pertinent question about whether people can have godfaith or an ongoing 'experience of god' (the rule is lower case ) without it getting related to one of the organized religions. "Depends"..I suppose. some people may want to 'do something about it'. others would want to keep it separate. Maybe if you'd been raised a catholic but had not been interested in the religion, then got an 'experience of god' (lower case (1) you might drift back into Catholicism. If you were raised atheist, that might explain why you didn't drift into organised religion. I'd guess you didn't, or you wouldn't be asking about it.
Funny!
Well, I’ve always responded to the “know” part as a “KNOWINGNESS” not embedded in any belief system — perhaps similar but not the same as a “gut feeling” or an “intuitive” feeling.
So what about those that have a ''gut feeling'' that Ganesh irs real or Brahma?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCyou
so what are Jesus' commands?
Well one of them was to sell your possessions and give the money to the poor. Another was that if anyone steals from you you should give them whatever else they want too. A third was that if anyone steals your things you are not to try to recover them.
I'd wager my pension that you have not sold all your possessions and given the money to the poor. I'd wager my pension that if someone took your computer you would not offer them the printer and monitor as well...and I would stake my life savings that, if you came home and found your car gone, the first thing you would do is to call the police and try to get it back.
Turn the other cheek? Love? Pfffft! Don't make me laugh. I see no Christians following the edicts of their 'Christ'. All I see in Christians is the same desire for revenge and justice as I see with anyone else.
You are a milder person that I am, Raffs. What i see is a bunch of seething hate- consumed fanatics that consider it a bloody liberty that some Liberal legalism stops them simply eradicating atheists by whatever means necessary.
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) without it getting related to one of the organized religions. "Depends"..I suppose. some people may want to 'do something about it'. others would want to keep it separate. Maybe if you'd been raised a catholic but had not been interested in the religion, then got an 'experience of god' (lower case (1) you might drift back into Catholicism. If you were raised atheist, that might explain why you didn't drift into organised religion. I'd guess you didn't, or you wouldn't be asking about it. 
