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I suspect it's a free will problem When our mental radio -set isn't working, The Intelligent universe apparently can't get through to us. Since that seems a bit improbable for the being that "Is the reason We Are here At All And that Is Why We Should Worship it" it must be that Mystic will have to embrace the Doctrine of God having a Rule about never infringing Upon Our Free Will, in Order To ensure that He never has to take responsibility for anything. It's a sort of Celestial Thatcherism.
In fact (according to Mystic's mental Radio apologetic), Intelligent Cosmos (aka) "God" can only get through to those who are spiritually (1) attuned to His wavelength. Even then the mental radio sets that He Made are long overdue for factory recall as hardly anybody get the right messages and Garble the Truth of God into all sorts of mistaken dogmas (where they aren't in fact 'man Made' ) and only those who are perfectly spiritually attuned to "God" can get the Correct messages. Examples of those perfectly spiritually advanced beings are probably hard to find, since there are so many garbled messages, but I suspect that we lucky people may not have to look too far.
(1) Mystic uses this term in a very concrete sense- 'Spiritual fossil reecord' being the traces in religious thought of the messages sent to humanity by Intelligent Dark matter (Aka "God").
I suspect it's a free will problem When our mental radio -set isn't working, The Intelligent universe apparently can't get through to us. Since that seems a bit improbable for the being that "Is the reason We Are here At All And that Is Why We Should Worship it" it must be that Mystic will have to embrace the Doctrine of God having a Rule about never infringing Upon Our Free Will, in Order To ensure that He never has to take responsibility for anything. It's a sort of Celestial Thatcherism.
In fact (according to Mystic's mental Radio apologetic), Intelligent Cosmos (aka) "God" can only get through to those who are spiritually (1) attuned to His wavelength. Even then the mental radio sets that He Made are long overdue for factory recall as hardly anybody get the right messages and Garble the Truth of God into all sorts of mistaken dogmas (where they aren't in fact 'man Made' ) and only those who are perfectly spiritually attuned to "God" can get the Correct messages. Examples of those perfectly spiritually advanced beings are probably hard to find, since there are so many garbled messages, but I suspect that we lucky people may not have to look too far.
(1) Mystic uses this term in a very concrete sense- 'Spiritual fossil record' being the traces in religious thought of the messages sent to humanity by Intelligent Dark matter (Aka "God").
Ah, Arq . . . It is so illuminating when you try to explain my views. You get the darndest parts wrong. We don't come into the world a blank slate, i.e., DNA and epigenetic factors. We have to learn everything from scratch about our Reality (the largest part of which is unconscious conditioning by our environment, physical and social). That constitutes a myriad of forces and influences on our attention and efforts. How you would apportion the blame for our not "listening or hearing" amid those forces on our attention and efforts, I have no clue. But it is NOT God's fault. You and LastAmalekite should know by now that I disavow any notion of the Omni's (other than omnipresent) until I can see some reason to assign such attributes other than human hubris. I have personally experienced evidence of the conscious influence that is why I believe it.
Ah, Arq . . . It is so illuminating when you try to explain my views. You get the darndest parts wrong. We don't come into the world a blank slate, i.e., DNA and epigenetic factors. We have to learn everything from scratch about our Reality (the largest part of which is unconscious conditioning by our environment, physical and social). That constitutes a myriad of forces and influences on our attention and efforts. How you would apportion the blame for our not "listening or hearing" amid those forces on our attention and efforts, I have no clue. But it is NOT God's fault. You and LastAmalekite should know by now that I disavow any notion of the Omni's (other than omnipresent) until I can see some reason to assign such attributes other than human hubris. I have personally experienced evidence of the conscious influence that is why I believe it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15
So is this my problem or omnigods ability to tell me something believable?
Obviously, you missed my post to Arq. The relevant portion is in bold.
There is no such thing as "supernatural" just what we do not currently understand. God is pure consciousness and we are children who are supposed to reproduce God's consciousness, at least once we mature enough to do so, however imperfectly. Jesus is the firstborn human who achieved "perfect resonance" (IDENTITY) with the consciousness of God connecting ALL human consciousness with God. There is nothing of this carnal world that is of interest or concern to God other than we need to overcome its demands and endure to the end of our physical life with love of God and each other.
well, by your own terms, nature means 'born', so born of what/whom?
scientific evidence indicates that the 'physical' has not always existed: it had a beginning; was born.
born of whom/what? Who are the proud parents?
Also, explain consciousness as well while you're at it, Trans... ?
Last edited by mensaguy; 08-11-2019 at 08:39 AM..
Reason: Quoted post was removed in a mass off topic delete.
well, by your own terms, nature means 'born', so born of what/whom?
scientific evidence indicates that the 'physical' has not always existed: it had a beginning; was born.
born of whom/what? Who are the proud parents?
Also, explain consciousness as well while you're at it, Trans... ?
Those are good questions. Who or what, made everything? Who (or what) made Life?
What is Consciousness, that is, how does it work?
I can't answer those questions. Nobody can, for sure. Though 'Life' has a couple of persuasive hypotheses.
But not knowing the answer does NOT mean It has to be God. That some people can't imagine a start without a huge invisible human doing it all, does not mean that such has to be the answer.
Nobody could explain how evolution worked, then DNA was discovered. Nobody could explain instinct unless God was 'writing it on our hearts'. The genetic encoding was discovered.
We are not far off an answer to how the matter of which the Big Bang event was made came to be. 'Don't know..but maybe we'll find out' is a good answer.
And there is incidental evidence to make a few pointers. A simple near -nothing proto -matter that does not need creation (after all, atoms are damn' near made of 'Nothing') is a better answer than a complex creative being that has no explicable origin of its' own. And while we are fortunate to be on a planet that can sustain life, we are even more fortunate that extinctions wiped out most of the species, otherwise, mammals wouldn't have has a chance and we would not be here. We were not Intended, we were Lucky.
And consciousness, though i don't have all the answers is some kind of electric message-sending, like the ones that control our bodies, and Newts can do that. The Dinosaurs in fact has two 'consciousnesses' - one that input sensory detection of dangers or opportunities and that that moved the legs to respond to it. I mean, animal 'consciousness' gets down to simple electrical trigger -messages reaction back to the origins in light -sensitive blobs in trilobites that gave a survival advantage which is what drove evolution.
And that goes back to the basic chemical reactions that cause flowers to open and crystals to grow. No 'God' needed.
But, even if the evidence Did indicate a god, that doesn't tell us which one. Which is to say, which religion is the right one? Which method of worship is right? Which Holy Book is correct?
Most of these arguments fail because it doesn't tell you Which God. If the Bible isn't to be taken as correct, then neither is the god depicted in it. And it is not correct. It is incorrect so seriously that it can't be explained away as human error; it is wrong and wrong in the most serious way for Christianity. The Jesus depicted in its' pages is a fiction. Even if the doings and saying were as true as is claimed, the resurrection is a demonstrable invention. Total contradiction means total fabrication. And the resurrection, in one of the few passages of Paul that is true, valid and honest, is the claim upon which Christianity stands and falls.
And it falls. The debate, as I have said before, is Over. The only talk is to get people to understand that Christianity has lost the debate. The game now is refusing to accept that they have lost and sucker everyone into not knowing it. We are here to disabuse them.
As to why? Why do we do it? Why do we spend all this time debunking God, Jesus and Christianity?
That's a subject for another thread.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-06-2019 at 10:01 AM..
well, by your own terms, nature means 'born', so born of what/whom?
scientific evidence indicates that the 'physical' has not always existed: it had a beginning; was born.
born of whom/what? Who are the proud parents?
Also, explain consciousness as well while you're at it, Trans... ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
Those are good questions. Who or what, made everything? Who (or what) made Life?
What is Consciousness, that is, how does it work?
I can't answer those questions. Nobody can, for sure. Though 'Life' has a couple of persuasive hypotheses.
But not knowing the answer does NOT mean It has to be God. That some people can't imagine a start without a huge invisible human doing it all, does not mean that such has to be the answer.
Nobody could explain how evolution worked, then DNA was discovered. Nobody could explain instinct unless God was 'writing it on our hearts'. The genetic encoding was discovered.
We are not far off an answer to how the matter of which the Big Bang event was made came to be. 'Don't know..but maybe we'll find out' is a good answer.
And there is incidental evidence to make a few pointers. A simple near -nothing proto -matter that does not need creation (after all, atoms are damn' near made of 'Nothing') is a better answer than a complex creative being that has no explicable origin of its' own. And while we are fortunate to be on a planet that can sustain life, we are even more fortunate that extinctions wiped out most of the species, otherwise, mammals wouldn't have has a chance and we would not be here. We were not Intended, we were Lucky.
And consciousness, though i don't have all the answers is some kind of electric message-sending, like the ones that control our bodies, and Newts can do that. The Dinosaurs in fact has two 'consciousnesses' - one that input sensory detection of dangers or opportunities and that that moved the legs to respond to it. I mean, animal 'consciousness' gets down to simple electrical trigger -messages reaction back to the origins in light -sensitive blobs in trilobites that gave a survival advantage which is what drove evolution.
And that goes back to the basic chemical reactions that cause flowers to open and crystals to grow. No 'God' needed.
But, even if the evidence Did indicate a god, that doesn't tell us which one. Which is to say, which religion is the right one? Which method of worship is right? Which Holy Book is correct?
Most of these arguments fail because it doesn't tell you Which God. If the Bible isn't to be taken as correct, then neither is the god depicted in it. And it is not correct. It is incorrect so seriously that it can't be explained away as human error; it is wrong and wrong in the most serious way for Christianity. The Jesus depicted in its' pages is a fiction. Even if the doings and saying were as true as is claimed, the resurrection is a demonstrable invention. Total contradiction means total fabrication. And the resurrection, in one of the few passages of Paul that is true, valid and honest, is the claim upon which Christianity stands and falls.
And it falls. The debate, as I have said before, is Over. The only talk is to get people to understand that Christianity has lost the debate. The game now is refusing to accept that they have lost and sucker everyone into not knowing it. We are here to disabuse them.
As to why? Why do we do it? Why do we spend all this time debunking God, Jesus and Christianity?
That's a subject for another thread.
Genesis and "the beginning."
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. He created the celestial bodies and finally man
Similarities between Genesis and Mesopotamian myths? The "devil is in the details" and the differences are striking:
Nowhere in Genesis do you find:
The universe is formed from a dead female carcass
Or that it formed from sex between a male and female god.-Mesopotamian accounts.
There's enough academic discussions on what "day" means in Genesis and the differences in the ancient Hebrew use of words in Genesis such as "made" vs "create" that fit in perfectly with what some Christians accept which is:
The best available science indicates the universe had a beginning.
The best available science tells us the earth and life is ages old and the universe even more so.
Did God wave a magic wand?
"Natural laws."People like Einstein didn't see randomness. If everything came about by randomness, chance, serendipity, "Woo hoo lucky for us genetic mutations" science wouldn't exist. Science is predicated on achieving reproducible results. That doesn't mean that the results always are in line with our hypothesis. However, such results can then be explained by further research.
The periodic table. There's intelligence behind that. If elements had fallen together by chance why would elements not have an "average weight." Some randomly heavier and others less so. Properties such as density, melting points, chemical reactivity would vary randomly from one element to another. But no, elements can be grouped and scientists could predict where a yet undiscovered element would fit into the table.
Many believers and non believers alike view the Bible as something it wasn't meant to be...The Bible was never meant to be a science book
Learned men understood this:
"The Bible shows the way to go to heaven, not the way the heavens go."-Galileo
"Surely, God could have caused birds to fly with their bones made of solid gold, with their veins full of quicksilver, with their flesh heavier than lead, and with their wings exceedingly small. He did not, and that ought to show something. It is only in order to shield your ignorance that you put the Lord at every turn to the refuge of a miracle."-Galileo
He wasn't knocking what the Bible said about some science themes. He was against using the Bible as a means to silence scientific discoveries that went against church doctrine. Let science answer how "God done it."
Jesus actually existed.
How many bonafide people with academic credentials are there that can credibly say Jesus was a myth?
Even skeptic scholars like Bart Ehrman concede Jesus existed. The debate among scholars who are skeptic or atheists and those that aren't isn't whether Jesus existed. It is about his divinity.
If the resurrection didn't happen we are all indeed in a pitiful state. All whom we have loved are lost...forever. That's a deep dark hole that people should be mindful and hopefully expend the effort about what's really the message found in the Bible and what Jesus taught before they resign themselves to such a state of mind.
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When our mental radio -set isn't working, The Intelligent universe apparently can't get through to us. Since that seems a bit improbable for the being that "Is the reason We Are here At All And that Is Why We Should Worship it" it must be that Mystic will have to embrace the Doctrine of God having a Rule about never infringing Upon Our Free Will, in Order To ensure that He never has to take responsibility for anything. It's a sort of Celestial Thatcherism. 
) and only those who are perfectly spiritually attuned to "God" can get the Correct messages. Examples of those perfectly spiritually advanced beings are probably hard to find, since there are so many garbled messages, but I suspect that we lucky people may not have to look too far. 
