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Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,939,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
It just means that the federal government has overstepped the bounds of what the founding fathers ever intended it to be. That's what it means. If you'd read the Constitution, it's crystal clear they never intended for a Washington bureaucrat to decide what some podunk town in Louisiana does. Local government will always be better than a tyrant government thousands of miles away. That's why they fought a war to be free from England.
And nowhere does it say that we are unable to have religion in public life. It specifically says CONGRESS shall make no law. It doesn't say a thing about local laws. It even goes on to say that anything not spelled out specifically is limited to the states. What do you do with that?
And you have once again proved you will not learn.
What did Madison say about the Establishment clause and what it means? What did Jefferson say about the Establishment clause and what it means?
Do you think that they just maybe know a bit more about it than you?
Just for clarification, the Supreme Court has ruled that most provisions of the Bill of Rights apply to the states via the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment under a doctrine called "incorporation."
Incidentally, this isn't new. This has been the case since before any of us were born. It is well established legal precedence. It really makes no difference if an individual disagrees with the Supreme Court or the 14th Amendment. It is, and has been, the law of the land.
So again we come to what the US Law has been decided to mean under the Constitution as distinct from what the Religious right would like to interpret it to mean. It does not (in law) mean that states can make their own rules on religion and that trumps (no pun intended, I swear) National law. Nor does it mean that the government should mind its own business when Christians think they can do what they like, using religion as an excuse. It is pointless to wrangle about what the people who drafted the Constitution meant or intended it to mean. What matters is what the Law actually is. and what that is has been upheld by court after court, and Judges, of left or right.
The Dover decision banning Genesis from the science class forever was handed down by a Republican Judge whom the Creationists confidently expected to throw the Law and constitution in the bin. He did his job.
Hovind thought he could play the religion card to cover up tax fraud. He ended up staring through bars. Kim Davies was jailed more than once by a Judge who was religious himself, but knew what the law said. He did his job.
Even the police have been told to remove "In God We Thrust" stickers from their cars - and I really thought they'd get away with that one. The line has been drawn and it is a hard one. It is pointless to say any more. A spell in Jail for those stepping over it will make the point.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 07-27-2016 at 09:58 AM..
I'm not sure if you understand--the Constitution of the US trumps local and state laws.
I'm not sure if you understand that the Constitution doesn't state that religion can't be taught in schools. The First Amendment, like the entire Constitution, is very poorly understood by liberals, usually intentionally. It states that the federal government may not establish a religion. However:
a) That does not mean that religion may not be present in government. Modern liberals would have you believe that the Constitution strictly mandates that religion stay "out of the workplace." In other words, it's OK for you to go to church on Sunday, as long as Monday through Saturday you shut up about God. Oddly, for some reason, everyone in America, including the Founders, completely ignored that supposed edict for a few hundred years until modern liberals became wildly leftist and tried to erase religion from society.
b) The Constitution doesn't "trump local and state laws." You seem to have little to no understanding of American history and the role of states versus federal government. The Constitution directs the federal government. Here's a hint: that's why the states have state Constitutions, including ones created long after the U.S. Constitution. I'm assuming you think those were just for fun.
Also:
Some guy predictably started talking about what Jefferson said about the establishment clause. Guess what? The liberal understanding about the establishment clause is more like "what we said about what Jefferson said about the establishment clause." Unfortunately for you, schools taught religion routinely during Jefferson's time and for some strange reason Jefferson didn't say they couldn't. Now if "they know a bit more about it than us," I assume that your next argument is that Jefferson "was just really busy and didn't have time to get around to removing religion from schools, but trust me he was totally going to do it before he died"?
Lastly, the statement that "the Supreme Court ruled ..." is entirely irrelevant. Oddly, the Supreme Court doesn't say "oh, by the way, you can throw out all of those different laws states have for guns because Second Amendment, guys." Or, similarly, the Supreme Court will "find" a right in the Constitution, such as a "right to abortion" or the "right to marriage" and then just say "equal protection." In fact, citing the Supreme Court is completely worthless in a philosophical sense, since the liberal Justices of the SCOTUS currently openly admit that they use foreign laws and foreign documents to support their legal arguments because US laws and documents do not. The poster Vizio is correct that the SCOTUS and federal government have clearly turned into what the Founders actually opposed.
Last edited by momomanno; 07-27-2016 at 10:11 AM..
From what I remember, if the religion and prayer in school were an issue, then it would have been adressed 200 years ago...It has only become an issue in recent times as liberal folks attempt to twist the constitution...The constitution states that no national religion may be formed...However, the state's are still free to choose a state religion...
Sure... so long as you pretend that Amendment XIV and Incorporation doesn't actually exist.
But they do.
Quote:
The incorporation doctrine is a constitutional doctrine through which selected provisions of the Bill of Rights are made applicable to the states through the Due Process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. This means that state governments are held to the same standards as the Federal Government regarding certain constitutional rights.
I guess we can ignore New York state's gun laws, according to Cornell, because of incorporation. I am sure Cornell's law professors will defend that. (Note: since liberals are always hypocrites, the response will be a smirking "yeah, go ahead, we'll arrest you then!")
Numerous SCOTUS decisions are based on what they said that it is relevant. You can not wish that away.
I recognize that. I also know that it's a problem. It doesn't mean it's correct, or that it should have been done that way, though. It means our system is corrupt and that our SCOTUS often fails to do its job.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,939,436 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
I recognize that. I also know that it's a problem. It doesn't mean it's correct, or that it should have been done that way, though. It means our system is corrupt and that our SCOTUS often fails to do its job.
System is corrupt even though both liberal and conservative Supreme Courts have upheld the judgement now for 70 years? Really?
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