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If a bakery refused to sell a wedding cake to a Christian Fundamentalist couple based on the owner's religious belief that fundamentalist were evil or an atheist baker refused the same couple those bakers should and must face the same charges that the baker that refused the same sex couple faced. Jeff, you and others do not recognize that those who oppose the special religious freedom for business owners you want are not doing it because we hate Christians but are opposed to that special freedom on the grounds that businesses must not discriminate against any protected group.
Baloney. Just looked how quickly and casually my article was brushed off by people here when it involved several gay bakeries refusing to serve a Christian. The response was to immediately look for some technicality to justify their action when it was the same kind of discrimination going on. Bottom line is you want the government to have laws that only favor your side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
You certainly can refuse to serve a disorderly customer, some one very rude to you, some one who you in the past have had bad dealings with but you cannot refuse to serve an entire group of people. It is not about being anti relgious or anti Christian no matter how often you state that. It is about the rights of all customers to be able to go into a business and be treated the same as any other customer that goes into that business, no separate lunch counter, no signs on the door prohibiting their entry and no exclusion on which products that group can buy (laws on age restriction on tobacco and alcohol do not apply)
I am of Jewish background, a Jewish butcher can refuse to sell pork in his business. If he does carry pork he cannot refuse to sell it to me because he thinks that as I am ethnically Jewish I should not eat pork, nor can a Christian butcher refuse to sell me pork if they sell pork. As either an atheist or a person of Jewish background I should be able to enter any business and purchase the products they have for sale without the owner refusing to sell me those products based on his own beliefs.
And if I tell the owner that I plan to use his products for immoral purposes, the owner should have the right to umm no, go do your business elsewhere. Kinda reminds me of the guy who did prank calls to pet stores asking about their cats and then telling them that they should be delicious to eat. How fast do you think the owner told him to "take a hike, buddy?" Pretty fast.
Yep. Just like the bigots of 60 years ago who told blacks they couldn't sit at the lunch counter.
Well I know your well is empty when you have to resort to racism comparisons again. And just how often are gay people being refused to be served at restaurants anyways?
If baking and delivering cakes is against your religion, DON'T OPEN A BAKERY.
Baking cake was never against their religion until gays decided to come in and FORCE them to change. Gay marriage didn't even exist until Oct. 2013 in that state.
Baloney. Just looked how quickly and casually my article was brushed off by people here when it involved several gay bakeries refusing to serve a Christian. The response was to immediately look for some technicality to justify their action when it was the same kind of discrimination going on. Bottom line is you want the government to have laws that only favor your side.
And if I tell the owner that I plan to use his products for immoral purposes, the owner should have the right to umm no, go do your business elsewhere. Kinda reminds me of the guy who did prank calls to pet stores asking about their cats and then telling them that they should be delicious to eat. How fast do you think the owner told him to "take a hike, buddy?" Pretty fast.
You are wrong about it. The article that you posted was a person asking for an offensive wording to be put on a cake. If a baker was asked to bake a cake and put on Christians are evil that baker could and should refuse to decorate that cake. The problem is that you personally cannot see the difference between the two examples, the discrimination against a class of people and the refusal to place a particular wording on a cake. Totally differnent issues and it is more than a technicallity. Lets us set away from gays for a moment. A baker cannot refuse to sell a cake to a Jewish person and that is different from a person going to to a Jewish baker and asking him or her to put on a cake JEWS KILL BABIES. Can you not see the difference?
I support the laws that give First Nations some special benfits and I get zero from that. I support that Churches are tax free if not involved in politics and again I get nothing from that. I support laws that I think either benefit society or protect people without thinking what is in it for myself. My side is anti discrimmination. Businesses should not be able to exclude homosexuals, Jews, First Nations people, women, handicap etc just because the owner does not like them or thinks they are agaisnt his belief system.
Your cat story is again to an individual not a group and the purpose of a pet store is to sell pets not food items for people.
Baking cake was never against their religion until gays decided to come in and FORCE them to change. Gay marriage didn't even exist until Oct. 2013 in that state.
And the law had been in place since 2007. The couple were getting married in another state, the reception was to be in Oregon.
If your religion has a problem with the laws, fight to get them changed, or don't open a business that would put you in danger of violating those laws.
It's illegal so it doesn't happen. Exactly for the same reasons that refusing to serve gay people who order wedding cakes is illegal.
So you are making up situations that don't even exist in reality. Got it. BTW, serving a straight customer vs gay customer in a restaurant = exactly the same thing. No moral conflict involved.
Serving a straight wedding request vs gay wedding request = not the same thing.
There's your fundamental difference when you try to force fit race comparison. Racism is a product born out of hatred and ignorance. Not accepting different sexual orientations is a product of moral conflicts. You don't accept people who are sexually orientated to be attracted to children. How is that different on this basic level?
And the law had been in place since 2007. The couple were getting married in another state, the reception was to be in Oregon.
If your religion has a problem with the laws, fight to get them changed, or don't open a business that would put you in danger of violating those laws.
Then stop arguing against our right to protest the law. The law has breached freedom of religion. One side has to give. That's why it is not so simple, cut and dry as you present it here. The annoying thing is your side will not compromise and try to work out a solution that satisfies both sides of the fences. My impression is that it must always be your way or get out of town, jack.
If you want true equality in everything, there's a name for that. Socialism.
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