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I still can't figure out how Religion status can be assigned to a "Business Model". Once more..Many Political entities apply for tax relief since they are using their incomes to HELP/Assist those in need ( AKA~Charity)..but has been shown it's mainly used for funnelling huge$$ to Political Candidates of their liking..I don't care what party..It shouldn't be allowed.
As for Scientology..Is nothing but a belief system not based on religion so much but from attempting to use Science to explain away religion as something irrelevant or impossible. In fact, It actually represents to me that their rhetoric is "Anti-Religious" ??? Am I missing their agenda???
The problem is that it is hard to define (as our past poster Dan McClellan pointed out ) what a religion is.
Dianetics was originally peddled as a mix of sci -fi aliens (Thetans) and psychiatry. Attempts to put it on a scientific level failed, so it was turned into a religion (1), where you don't ask questions; you just have Faith. That makes it a religion in my view, and coercion, exploitation, lack of soup kitchens and where the money goes does not decide whether it is a religion or not.
The Moonies seem now to have achieved respectability as the Unification church perhaps because they are implacably anti -Communist and at least believe in God. And in my view they every bit as bad as scientology.
If one is going to start a campaign to unseat the Scientologists as a religion by getting them to pay tax, then it ought to be done for all.
There may a tactical point io going for the soft target, but it doesn't sit too well with me, picking on the ones you think you can beat up without anyone stopping you.
(1) it was renamed in a clever move when Hubbard was ousted by some who wanted the money going into their bank account and he simply renamed it and carried on as before, and who now has heard of Dianetics?
Nope, it can't work that way. There MUST be parameters - established by the government - that define what a religion must be in order to qualify as one. Without the government making those decisions, every tax evader in America could invent their own crazy beliefs on the fly and apply for tax exempt status - and get it.
Sure, it can be scary, perhaps even a bit dangerous for the government to draw those lines regarding religious belief ... but it HAS to be done.
I have to agree with those who desire to strip scientology of its tax exempt status.
When I first moved to North Carolina and was looking for work in Raleigh, I went on an interview for what I thought was a perfume company. Turned out, it was a corporate cult, a sort of quasi-pyramid scheme with a mysterious pyramid apex known as "Uncle Walt" who lived in a mansion on Oahu. As an atheist, the alarm bells going off inside my head were deafening so I declined a second interview - and lo and behold, the internet has several forums dedicated to warning people away from that "company."
It was very religious and cultish by nature with "Uncle Walt" serving as the object of reverence and obedience. You were expected to sacrifice everything in order to panhandle illegal perfume knockoffs to people on the street - and your hard-earned money went up the pyramid until even "Uncle Walt" got his share and you were left holding pennies. Failing to meet a quota of sales prompted disciplinary action up to and including the horrible prospect of being banished from the cult. Those forums are replete with sad stories of parents losing their kids, wives and husbands breaking up, people committing suicide, etc.
Now, the reason why I bring this up is because ... should an organization like this also receive tax exempt status simply because they structured their business like a religious group? Isn't that precisely what scientology has done?
I don't think we should be in the business of rewarding cults and encouraging businesses to duck their taxes simply by masquerading as a religious entity. The line has to be drawn somewhere - and I think scientology is on the other side of the line.
Maybe taxation would stop churches like the Mormons spending $47 million on anti-gay propaganda (even using photos and videos of children without parental consent) instead of using that money to help people in need. I'd rather see $47 million of Mormon money go to the government than to serve as a warchest to promote bigotry, hatred, homophobia, prejudice, oppression, and inequity.
Don't let your hatred for Mormonism keep you from presenting the facts accurately, Shirina. Individual Mormon church members donated in excess of $5,000,000. The Church itself spent $227,000. As far as what individual Mormons donated, that's their business. I don't personally believe the Church itself should have contributed anything to political causes like this, but $47 million? Really?
Furthermore, you have absolutely no idea of how much the Mormon Church actually does donate to humanitarian causes worldwide. For a church whose members constitute .2% (not 2% but .2%) of the world's population, we do by far more good in the world for our size than almost any other church. Last year, the Church released a movie nationwide called "Meet the Mormons." The proceeds of that movie ($1.8 million) went entirely to Red Cross. Since we started keeping track, we've contributed more than $1 billion in cash and material assistance to 167 countries in need of assistance. This help is given without regard to religious affiliation, ethnicity or nationality. I don't see that as a "warchest to promote bigotry or hatred." As a matter of fact, that is itself a bigoted and hateful statement.
Nobody can stop you for hating anyone you want to hate. Still, the last time I checked, this thread was not about Mormonism at all, but about Scientology. How about keeping that in mind in the future.
The problem is that it is hard to define (as our past poster Dan McClellan pointed out ) what a religion is.
Dianetics was originally peddled as a mix of sci -fi aliens (Thetans) and psychiatry. Attempts to put it on a scientific level failed, so it was turned into a religion (1), where you don't ask questions; you just have Faith. That makes it a religion in my view, and coercion, exploitation, lack of soup kitchens and where the money goes does not decide whether it is a religion or not.
The Moonies seem now to have achieved respectability as the Unification church perhaps because they are implacably anti -Communist and at least believe in God. And in my view they every bit as bad as scientology.
If one is going to start a campaign to unseat the Scientologists as a religion by getting them to pay tax, then it ought to be done for all.
There may a tactical point io going for the soft target, but it doesn't sit too well with me, picking on the ones you think you can beat up without anyone stopping you.
(1) it was renamed in a clever move when Hubbard was ousted by some who wanted the money going into their bank account and he simply renamed it and carried on as before, and who now has heard of Dianetics?
TY..You stated much better than I...Why should any religious name/site be abe to claim exemption when generating $$ whether it's a business model or to disburse for things NOT listed.. Things such as support for HELP networks for needy or assistance to those unable to collect govt assistance should be a writeoff/PERIOD!! .....WTH, when these Proposed Religious entities try to claim things..MAKE THEM THEY prove it on paper. ( of course creative Accounting CAN BE BOUGHT!)..FOLLOW the $ is always the proof of intent....This has nothing to do with Political Parties..It has to do with abuses of the SYStem..!!
The fairest thing that can be done is to remove tax exemptions for all religious organizations. If they are not large enough to fully support a house of worship, they are small enough to hold services in members homes.
TY..You stated much better than I...Why should any religious name/site be abe to claim exemption when generating $$ whether it's a business model or to disburse for things NOT listed.. Things such as support for HELP networks for needy or assistance to those unable to collect govt assistance should be a writeoff/PERIOD!! .....WTH, when these Proposed Religious entities try to claim things..MAKE THEM THEY prove it on paper. ( of course creative Accounting CAN BE BOUGHT!)..FOLLOW the $ is always the proof of intent....This has nothing to do with Political Parties..It has to do with abuses of the SYStem..!!
If I follow you on that, either making a sound case for themselves as a religion or being accountable or both would be good. It would not so much be another nail but driving a Mack truck over the coffin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI
The fairest thing that can be done is to remove tax exemptions for all religious organizations. If they are not large enough to fully support a house of worship, they are small enough to hold services in members homes.
I agree. If only to see Obama's face when he reads the latest presidential pronouncement...tax exemption abolished for all religions.
(1) it was renamed in a clever move when Hubbard was ousted by some who wanted the money going into their bank account and he simply renamed it and carried on as before, and who now has heard of Dianetics?
A lot of Boomers who were watching local TV in Los Angeles in the 60's. Hubbard bought a LOT of commercial time to sell his book. (If you want to start a religion..... go to L.A.) The commercial was nothing but a voice-over and a picture of the cover of the book. He basically told people, who were sitting at home watching an old movie or Bowling for Dollars, that they were screwed up and his book was the solution to their problems.
Yes, the 60's people will remember 'Dianetics' as a cure -all Method of ..putting your head right. Not a hint of religion. That came later. I recall a failed attempt to make it work as science and an attempt (in the face of a rising clamour for a 'Clear' -just One - to be produced) to parade a Clear, and the whole thing began to fall apart. That was when Hubbard decided to make it a religion so that people would get used to relying on Faith and not ask awkward questions.
Yes, the 60's people will remember 'Dianetics' as a cure -all Method of ..putting your head right. Not a hint of religion. That came later. I recall a failed attempt to make it work as science and an attempt (in the face of a rising clamour for a 'Clear' -just One - to be produced) to parade a Clear, and the whole thing began to fall apart. That was when Hubbard decided to make it a religion so that people would get used to relying on Faith and not ask awkward questions.
Hubbard was also broke at that point and turning it into a religion put him way, way in the black in a big hurry.
Watch "Going Clear." This so-called religion is an abusive scam. End their tax exempt status and spread the word.
Many thoughts.
For one, I'm uncomfortable with the notion that Scientology is some sort of scam while megachurches with leaders living in lavish mansions and unlimited private jet use are legitimate, merely because the latter are 'mainstream'.
Also, I am somewhat disquieted by the government being the arbiter of what is a genuine religion - whatever that means. That said, there does have to be come mechanism for such examination, otherwise anyone can just claim "RELIGION!" as an excuse not to pay taxes, or to disregard certain other laws the rest of us have to follow.
But to this specific issue, I want the IRS to have a set of firm guidelines for determining whether a group warrants tax-exempt status, and to make their decisions based on those hard-and-fast guidelines. The last thing I want is for them to looking at some petition and deciding to revoke tax-exempt status on the basis of the unpopularity for a group.
And for that reason (as well as the utter irrelevance of online petitions), I won't be adding my name to this petition.
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) what a religion is. 
