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I guess I expected a little more from people on this forum. I had hopes that, surely even Christians would find such a law repulsive.
As for your three examples, I think all three of them are indicative of stupid, small-minded behavior. You're a photographer. Just take the damn pictures. You're there to do a job, not proselytize through words or actions, and if you can't do it, then hang up your camera and go find an office cubicle to work in, somewhere where you won't be confronted with things that pop your comfort bubble.
Well, I give up. If you want the right to act like a jerk, go right ahead.
See what I mean? How do you prove you're NOT gay? It's not good law even removing all of the religion. When you say it's okay to discriminate based on something you can't see, touch, feel, or prove, then anyone and everyone is at risk. Period.
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And this is your response to an open minded atheist?
You did read Hiker's post? Right? You did notice Hiker was an atheist? Hiker said so. Why are you acting as if Hiker is a religious person???
As for your three examples, I think all three of them are indicative of stupid, small-minded behavior. You're a photographer. Just take the damn pictures. You're there to do a job, not proselytize through words or actions, and if you can't do it, then hang up your camera and go find an office cubicle to work in, somewhere where you won't be confronted with things that pop your comfort bubble.
Thanks for answering, Shirina. I asked the same question of the Orthodox Jews in the Judaism forum, and hopefully we will see their response after Shabbos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina
If you want the right to act like a jerk, go right ahead.
Here in the greatest country in the history of the world, we all have that right. If that irritates you, too bad.
Shirina, I am an Atheist and I will defend the law.
Some people have strong religious beliefs. If their job is to provide a service, they should have the right to refuse a service that reasonably violates their religious beliefs.
For example, what if an Orthodox Jewish photographer refuses to take pictures at a Catholic wedding in the presence of idols they find abhorrent?
What if the same photographer refuses to take pictures at a family celebration where a pig is butchered, roasted, and devoured by the guests?
What if a devout Muslim pharmacist refuses to sell condoms to two men who come into the store holding hands?
What do you think about these three examples?
About the same as I think of:
A hotel owner who won't rent to an interracial couple. On religious grounds, of course.
An anti-Semitic doctor that refuses to treat a patient. The patient is a Jew, of course.
A business owner who won't employ women. Why? Oh, the usual "I call religion, so I get to discriminate!" free pass that this embarrassment of a law allows.
Frankly, this falls under the entire class of repugnant and despicable actions that we (the United States, collectively) determined back in 1964 had no place in the public sphere of businesses open to the aforementioned public. That determination was called the Civil Rights Act. While it did not prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation, the principle is exactly the same - prohibiting discrimination in the business realm against suspect classes.
People - and non-business entities, such as religions - are free to channel their inner medieval selves and discriminate to their black heart's content. But when they decide to establish or become a business, interfacing with the public, licensed by various state and federal agencies, they lose the right to discriminate against people based on color, or gender, or orientation (or, ironically, religion). We had a case here in Minnesota a few years back in which many Muslim cab drivers at the local airport (the large local Somali immigrant population makes up a majority of the cab drivers servicing MSP) were refusing to take on passengers carrying alcohol (not uncommon for travellers) and those with service dogs. The excuse? The usual - religion. They were told to stop discriminating against such travelers, or they'd lose their taxi licenses. Rightly so. And the victims of that discrimination weren't even members of a protected class (they were people with service dogs and people with alcohol - neither constitutes a suspect class). It was still unacceptable.
If you want to take on the case of calling for the abrogations of the Civil Rights Act so long as there is a religious excuse being served up as an excuse, have at it. Don't expect much company.
Here in the greatest country in the history of the world, we all have that right. If that irritates you, too bad.
As long as this country has laws like the one in Arizona ... in THIS day and age ... America can never boast of being the "greatest country in the history of the world." This isn't 1950 anymore. America has REAL competition now, and we're blowing it.
Rather hard to feel patriotic in light of the nonsense going on in Arizona and potentially other states, too.
And our rights are NOT infinite. We don't have the right to act like jerks when doing so interferes with someone else's rights. That's ethics 101. I asked in my post whether the right to discriminate or the right to not be discriminated against takes precedent.
I confess that I haven't read the entire thread, but pursuant to the original post, am I the only one who appreciates the irony here?
Revelation 13:16-17 (NASB, emphasis added)
And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name
Thanks.
Actually, if there is to be a "mark of the beast," I've already determined it will be the credit score.
Apparently it's okay to discriminate and persecute other people if ones religion says someone else is inferior merely because they don't follow some bronze age law. What would people think if I created a religion that said belonging to any of the Abrahamic faiths was a sin. It would therefore violate my faith if I didn't discriminate against any Jew, Christian or Muslim. It would therefore protect my religious freedom to enact a law that would let me discriminate against anyone belonging to any of the Abrahamic religions. Not enacting such a law would persecute me because of my religion. This would be no different than the law being passed. It would be hypocrisy for anyone that supports this law to get angry if a law were passed that said I could discriminate against people of the Abrahamic faiths. The people who support this law would be outraged if such a thing occurred.
And our rights are NOT infinite. We don't have the right to act like jerks when doing so interferes with someone else's rights. That's ethics 101. I asked in my post whether the right to discriminate or the right to not be discriminated against takes precedent.
Well? Which do you think?
Hello again Shirina.
I suppose that one could create a paradox with this type if thinking. If I am a Satanist that does not want to allow Christians into my restaurant, am I not infringing on their legally protected rights by exercising my right to discriminate?
Honestly, I am truly shocked that there are posters defending a law that so blatantly sanctions discrimination. And in the words of Forrest Gump...that's all I got to say about that.
Thanks.
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