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Thank you for that. But what do you do when Paul seems to hold contradictory opinions on the subject? Here you go:
Romans 16:1-16 (Young's Literal Translation)
1And I commend you to Phebe our sister -- being a ministrant of the assembly that [is] in Cenchrea --
2that ye may receive her in the Lord, as doth become saints, and may assist her in whatever matter she may have need of you -- for she also became a leader of many, and of myself.
So if a woman was a ministrant (Or "Deacon" as some texts interpret. If so, "deacon" presents an even more compelling case, for Paul in Timothy 2 states that there are only two church offices, Bishop and Deacon. Unless Paul was unbelievably sloppy with his language, then a consistent Bible reader would acknowledge that Paul making Phoebe deacon over the Roman church would mean installing her in a formal church leadership position. I just don't see much wiggle room here), and Paul acknowledges that she was a leader not only of many, but even himself, how does this reconcile with Corinthians? After all, if Paul sent Phoebe to lead the congregation of the greatest city of the Ancient world, doesn't that undercut this belief among fundamentalists that women aren't supposed to hold positions in the ministry?
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! i gotta see the reply to this! Can you say GOTCHA?
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! i gotta see the reply to this! Can you say GOTCHA?
Why thank you. You know, whenever I voice this argument, I never get a true rebuttal. The best I get is a very weak, "Well he really mean 'deaconness,' more of a helper than a priest. However, the earliest manuscripts only use 'deacon,' because the feminine variation of the Greek word really didn't come into use for several centuries.
Moreover, if Paul doesn't want women to speak up in church, then why did he praise the four daughters of Philip for their prophesying?
Why thank you. You know, whenever I voice this argument, I never get a true rebuttal. The best I get is a very weak, "Well he really mean 'deaconness,' more of a helper than a priest. However, the earliest manuscripts only use 'deacon,' because the feminine variation of the Greek word really didn't come into use for several centuries.
Moreover, if Paul doesn't want women to speak up in church, then why did he praise the four daughters of Philip for their prophesying?
And if the truth be known Mary Magdalene almost certainly held a very high place in the early church. I really do think that the same men who decided what would be in the Bible and what wouldnt felt that powerful women were a threat to their power. The idea that Mary Magdalene' writings were not worthy of Biblical inclusion is absurd! Especially since Jesus called her his "most beloved!"
Why thank you. You know, whenever I voice this argument, I never get a true rebuttal. The best I get is a very weak, "Well he really mean 'deaconness,' more of a helper than a priest. However, the earliest manuscripts only use 'deacon,' because the feminine variation of the Greek word really didn't come into use for several centuries.
Moreover, if Paul doesn't want women to speak up in church, then why did he praise the four daughters of Philip for their prophesying?
And if I may add a note about Greek translations- It is, in my opinion, highly unlikely that Jesus was a carpenter. The Greek word used to descibe what type of work Jesus did was TEKTRON. It means "works with hands." When you consider where Jesus grew up it would be unlikely that many things were made of wood. Wood would have been scarce enough that it would not have been used for many things. People of Galilee would have used materials of abundance. In Galilee that would have been stone and clay. So I think Jesus most likely worked in stone. I guess my point is that people need to think about things before they take them as "gospel."
And if I may add a note about Greek translations- It is, in my opinion, highly unlikely that Jesus was a carpenter. The Greek word used to descibe what type of work Jesus did was TEKTRON. It means "works with hands." When you consider where Jesus grew up it would be unlikely that many things were made of wood. Wood would have been scarce enough that it would not have been used for many things. People of Galilee would have used materials of abundance. In Galilee that would have been stone and clay. So I think Jesus most likely worked in stone. I guess my point is that people need to think about things before they take them as "gospel."
Dan, I think you're off a little bit here. First of all, there were a lot more trees back then than there are now. At the time of the Ottoman Turks the Ottomans taxed trees in the holy land in order to denude the land of trees. Plus, have you ever heard of the cedars of Lebanon? I think they would have had plenty of wood to work with and I doubt that fishing boats, chariots, tables and chairs etc were made out of stone You know, sometimes you can over think things.
Dan, I think you're off a little bit here. First of all, there was a lot more trees back then than there are now. At the time of the Ottoman Turks the Ottomans taxed trees in the holy land in order to denude the land of trees. Plus, have you ever heard of the cedars of Lebanon? I think they would have had plenty of wood to work with and I doubt that fishing boats, chariots, tables and chairs etc were made out of stone You know, sometimes you can over think things.
Ever try floating a boat made out of cedar? Jesus may have made FURNITURE out of wood but that doesnt make him a carpenter! Ruins of homes in Galilee from the time of Jesus were stone. There were very few trees in Galilee. You are assuming the Turks razed millions of trees. It hurt the Jews because there was so few already.
Ever try floating a boat made out of cedar? Jesus may have made FURNITURE out of wood but that doesnt make him a carpenter! Ruins of homes in Galilee from the time of Jesus were stone. There were very few trees in Galilee. You are assuming the Turks razed millions of trees. It hurt the Jews because there was so few already.
It is true that the most plentiful building product they had was stone. Never the less, there were a lot more trees then than now. There would have been more stone masons than carpenters, but they still needed and had carpenters. I never said the Turks razed anything. I said they taxed. I think you're trying to do the same thing with the bible that you did with my statement. You change it to say what you want.
So they were MARRIED prostitutes???????????????????????
My opinion is that they were married X-prostitutes..With that answer..I am outta here..I posted plenty in this thread ages ago and have nothing new to add to it..
Why do some churches believe in having a woman minister when 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 strictly states that women should keep silent in the church?
The problem here is you think that church and minster today, mean the same as they did then.
Moderator cut: off-topic--this thread isn't about hell
Last edited by Alpha8207; 09-29-2008 at 08:40 AM..
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