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I have a response to the OP. However, I prefer not to waste my time responding if the originator of the OP is uninterested in having a back and forth discourse.
The "usury" charge is vague. The "Christian Relativism" charge appears to be a simple and purposeful mischaracterization.
There is NOTHING vague about usury. Charging interest on borrowed money & things = usury.
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Specifically, where or how does Ramsey or the Bible encourage usury?
Bible discourage usury and Dave Ramsey encourages brethren to become shareholders in usury bearing operations. Isn't that clear?
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If Christianity posits an objective and Transcendent moral code, how can there logically be any such thing as "Christian Relativism?"
There is no ANY objective Christian moral code. You just do what you like to do and recruit murky Bible passages to justify your particular preferences while ignoring the rest of the book. That's the point.
And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil. Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful. “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven; give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”
“If your brother becomes poor and cannot maintain himself with you, you shall support him as though he were a stranger and a sojourner, and he shall live with you. Take no interest from him or profit, but fear your God, that your brother may live beside you. You shall not lend him your money at interest, nor give him your food for profit.
“You shall not charge interest on loans to your brother, interest on money, interest on food, interest on anything that is lent for interest. You may charge a foreigner interest, but you may not charge your brother interest, that the Lord your God may bless you in all that you undertake in the land that you are entering to take possession of it.
Ok, I am dumber than I look because everything you have posted still has nothing to do with Dave Ramsey and usury. IF you invest as Dave Ramsey suggests you are NOT LOANING to anyone so you are NOT CHARGING INTEREST. You are COLLECTING interest so you are able to give to your brother so they may live better.
That is my understanding anyway and on that note I am not posting again since I agree with tigetmax24 and have come to realize this is really not for discussion but for preaching one's own belief without considering another's point of view.
Ok, I am dumber than I look because everything you have posted still has nothing to do with Dave Ramsey and usury. IF you invest as Dave Ramsey suggests you are NOT LOANING to anyone so you are NOT CHARGING INTEREST. You are COLLECTING interest so you are able to give to your brother so they may live better.
That is my understanding anyway and on that note I am not posting again since I agree with tigetmax24 and have come to realize this is really not for discussion but for preaching one's own belief without considering another's point of view.
If you invest (successfully) you are collecting interest, how on earth one could collect interest without charging it? Yes, you don't do it personally you let large corporate institutions to charge and to collect interest on your behalf. Is that your crutch overriding Bible's direct prohibitions ? If so, murder is also OK as long as you procure professional killer services. After all, murders done by fine Christian soldiers is just fine with sweet baby Jesus, even if American Christian sergeant York kills 18 German Christians, Jesus is pleased. But that's another case of Christian Moral Relativism.
Yup, regrettably, you are a typical Christian who is wrapping himself in layers of preconceived & unregurgitated believes (amended by wishful thinking), usury on behalf of your brothers ROFLMAO, thanks for good laugh.
If you invest (successfully) you are collecting interest, how on earth one could collect interest without charging it? Yes, you don't do it personally you let large corporate institutions to charge and to collect interest on your behalf. Is that your crutch overriding Bible's direct prohibitions ? If so, murder is also OK as long as you procure professional killer services. After all, murders done by fine Christian soldiers is just fine with sweet baby Jesus, even if American Christian sergeant York kills 18 German Christians, Jesus is pleased. But that's another case of Christian Moral Relativism.
Yup, regrettably, you are a typical Christian who is wrapping himself in layers of preconceived & unregurgitated believes (amended by wishful thinking), usury on behalf of your brothers ROFLMAO, thanks for good laugh.
YOU have NO IDEA who I am or what I believe so do not insult me by stating that you do. Also, I am NOT a "himself", another fact you ASS...ume. What a waste of my time, I should know better.
I'm afraid I do. Anyway, don't get upset because you cannot argue a few ridiculous points you've made, that's what faith is for, there are no limits on the things you can believe in, just don't bring them to a discussion forums. OK. Cheers.
Can buyer agent handle this for me? For how much?
I found freddieMac owned property in the boonies I'm interest in and I can afford to pay cash for the listed price. They allow 2 weeks for owner occupants/second home owners (me) to bid uncontested by land speculators. I'm a very "unique" niche buyer and it's a "unique" property coming on selling line every other half of a year or more in the area. Unique doesn't mean desirable by most of the folks so I have a chance .
It's a manufactured home (not a trailer) with a basement and attached garage sitting on 18 acres according to county auditor website and 15 acres according to the listing. I didn't get a reasonably clear answer about the discrepancy from the listing agent, just some BS about county assessing taxes using different acreage than the actual property acreage. Can I ask buyer agent to clear that up? According county auditor property is owned by Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation and all property taxes are paid on time. I walked around it, home looks OK from outside but it's probably overall uninhabitable and require sizable amount of $ to get in shape. Which is OK with me at that selling price. All I worry about is a water well. If it's dry or busted that would be a hard buy. Of course property is sold "As is". Do I have any recourse against a dry well in an "As is" sale?
Going back to "Buyer agent", I don't have time (and honestly knowledge) to handle the bidding and purchase. I need somebody doing that for me. Sure, I would like to cut a few thousands off the selling price, but I don't think it's a wise thing to attempt since they sell everything for the price of land already. And no matter what they say about lousy housing market, there is so much $ on some people' hands they buy every more or less desirable piece of land pretty fast. So I'm not sure about bidding lower.
So that's the things I want a buyer agent to do:
Clarify Acreage discrepancy
Make an offer for the listed price
Title Search/Title Insurance
Arrange Survey
Arrange Home Inspection
Closing
Can a buyer agent handle that? For how much? Where to find a reputable buyer agent?
So, let me ask are you going to "charge your brother interest" if you sell this place after repairs? Will you sell even if the buyer has to borrow the money from a Financial Institution that promotes usury? Just curious........hope the headache gets better soon..........
So, let me ask are you going to "charge your brother interest" if you sell this place after repairs? Will you sell even if the buyer has to borrow the money from a Financial Institution that promotes usury? Just curious........hope the headache gets better soon..........
You are bringing unrelated crap into discussion of usury. My character & my purchases have NOTHING to do with Christian Moral Relativism. I'm not a Christian for you to bring that post up. Since you did all that post digging, I'll reply. I've bought the property for cash. I don't plan on reselling it ever. Sure, sheriff, emergencies and creditors may sell it for me. Other than that I don't intend to utilize institutionalized usury, yet I cannot avoid institutions of usury completely even if I tried because entire economy is built around them. 90% of Americans claim to be Christians and they built a country on Foundations of Usury, Bible be interpreted. Yup, let's go to bash some gays, climb those high moral grounds.
There is NOTHING vague about usury. Charging interest on borrowed money & things = usury.
Perhaps we must agree to disagree. I've always understood usury as charging EXORBITANT interest rates.
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Originally Posted by RememberMee
Bible discourage usury and Dave Ramsey encourages brethren to become shareholders in usury bearing operations. Isn't that clear?
No, it's not "clear." I don't claim to be an expert on Ramsey but I do believe I've heard him repeatedly advise people to be neither borrowers nor lenders.
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Originally Posted by RememberMee
There is no ANY objective Christian moral code. You just do what you like to do and recruit murky Bible passages to justify your particular preferences while ignoring the rest of the book. That's the point.
You've apparently observed that Christians are sinners. Congratulations.
How does this in any way demonstrate that God does not exist and that he has not communicated a moral code?
And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil. Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful. “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven; give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”
“If your brother becomes poor and cannot maintain himself with you, you shall support him as though he were a stranger and a sojourner, and he shall live with you. Take no interest from him or profit, but fear your God, that your brother may live beside you. You shall not lend him your money at interest, nor give him your food for profit.
“You shall not charge interest on loans to your brother, interest on money, interest on food, interest on anything that is lent for interest. You may charge a foreigner interest, but you may not charge your brother interest, that the Lord your God may bless you in all that you undertake in the land that you are entering to take possession of it.
Perhaps we must agree to disagree. I've always understood usury as charging EXORBITANT interest rates.
That's your wishful thinking. Bible is CLEAR on the matter, charging of interest at any rate is usury. The Holy Book is not clear about lots of things but even when it's crystal clear about a thing or two, the faithfuls just ignore inconveniently clear messages. What? Sweet baby Jesus wouldn't want me to collect dividends and distributions just like rich bankers do, it could not be, that usury thing must be taken out of context. Theology 101.
So why do you all bash gays and embrace usury? What context, hermeneutics and the rest of BS do you use to cherry pick things to bash (gays) and things to worship (usury)? BTW, ALL the states in the most Christian nation on Earth scrapped old usury laws limiting interest rates one could charge. How come? As the urge for public prayer and public display of 10 commandments (having no foundations in the Bible) is getting stronger the usury laws went down the drain. Do you really expect us to take your "faith" seriously?
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No, it's not "clear." I don't claim to be an expert on Ramsey but I do believe I've heard him repeatedly advise people to be neither borrowers nor lenders.
Wrong. Dave Ramsey doesn't want you to borrow but he wants you to invest in usury bearing enterprises, which means that another ******* must borrow for you to benefit of the gospel of Dave. I don't recollect him saying that 33% dividends you might collect are unbiblical. According to Dave, if you don't invest, you'll be just an old broken fart without a stream of usury derived income. And he's correct. The most Christian nation on Earth made decent life impossible unless one worship the true golden God of the land.
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You've apparently observed that Christians are sinners. Congratulations.
Sin is a very, very, very relative thing. For example, an American sniper who killed 163 Iraqis is not a sinner (because of those 163 kills). Neither were pilots who dropped A bomb. 20 terrorist who flew a plane into WTC are sinners and abominators and so are serial murderers. Just a small example.
Hypocrisy of Christianity is not relative. "Sin" is.
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How does this in any way demonstrate that God does not exist and that he has not communicated a moral code?
Not me, YOU. If you don't take your delusions seriously, how would you expect me to take them seriously? If 90% of Christian Americans would take word of Christian God (who supposedly exist) seriously, they would not have built a country and economy on the foundation of usury (just an example). That's what Christians do for the last 1500 years - twisting, tweaking and adjusting ancient scrolls to validate their worldly desires, greed and status urges. Why one would worship God who doesn't distribute wordly benefits? Eternal salvation is fine and dandy, but a bird in a hand here and now is much, much more appealing. And 250,000 of American Christians prove me right every day.
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Great advice when taken in context.
...and your point is...what?
And context being yours (and like you) desires to collect unearned income by means of usury schemes, to be just like those rich money changers, rentiers and bankers who collect a lot without working much. Naturally, your God wants you to be comfortable. That's all context to it. Making a God in your image and desires.
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