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Depends on what heaven is like. I don't like the entire concept behind the one of Semitic religions. I don't like that entire idea of that personal god and his son or whatever Jesus thought he was. If at least the deities of those conventional religions were female I don't want to be with gods like the one in the Bible/Koran, nor with Jesus.
It is a rather naive and childish concept in my opinion, that says a lot about the people who came up with it. In my view Buddhism is a lot wiser.
I personally think heaven as well as hell are on earth, right here and now, produced by nature as such and humanity in particular. And they are temporary of course, since things are always in flux and one day end.
Depends on what heaven is like. I don't like the entire concept behind the one of Semitic religions. I don't like that entire idea of that personal god and his son or whatever Jesus thought he was. If at least the deities of those conventional religions were female I don't want to be with gods like the one in the Bible/Koran, nor with Jesus.
It is a rather naive and childish concept in my opinion, that says a lot about the people who came up with it. In my view Buddhism is a lot wiser.
I personally think heaven as well as hell are on earth, right here and now, produced by nature as such and humanity in particular. And they are temporary of course, since things are always in flux and one day end.
I rather agree. The idea of vengeful despotic gods who damn people to hell for ever for not voting for them - it really seems chidish and foolish and since I grew up I put away childish things. Buddhism at least doesn't have this childish hell -threat or the arbitrary favour of gods.
I rather agree. The idea of vengeful despotic gods who damn people to hell for ever for not voting for them - it really seems chidish and foolish and since I grew up I put away childish things. Buddhism at least doesn't have this childish hell -threat or the arbitrary favour of gods.
Is it really so childish? Voting for him is just the beginning. It seems like he simply expected people to vote for him. Hell is reserved for those who wouldn't follow his rules here on Earth. But those rules really aren't asking so much if you think about it. Basically, they're all a test of moral and ethics. Breaking most of the rules are simply immoral and unethical. Why would God want his Kingdom full of people who are going to rape someone or cheat on their wife or murder or take more than one or two peppermints out of the bowl on the counter? He's really not asking so much.
Don't get me wrong I'm still weighing out the pros and cons of it all. But the main thing going on in my head is "Why would I take the chance of burning in Hell when all I have to do to avoid it is not be an immoral unethical waste of life." The last thing is to simply believe he exists and say that's why you live like that. I mean even if he really doesn't exist at the end of it all, what changes for you? Nothing. lol. Just seems like a stupid chance to take just because you want to reject the idea of it.
I'm sorry I posted this in another thread but I decided I want to get others opinion on this. I can't wrap my head around the fact that many people just accept that they will go to hell! Like seriously! This is nuts! And yes, I'm talking about Atheist too! I've read from various websites and forums that Atheist, even not believing in a higher deity, know that they have a possibility of going to hell and they accept this! I'm so shocked.
Some people just don't want to belong to exclusive clubs. They would rather face the possiblitity of eternal punishment then live forever in what they picture Heaven to be.
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Even if you mock it and don't believe it, I HIGHLY DOUBT hell is a place anyone wants to go! It doesn't sound appealing AT ALL! Heaven is promised to us by Jesus Christ! If you believe he died on the cross for your sins! I don't understand what is so hard about that!
Why would I want to believe that Jesus was murdered on my behalf? I'd rather take responsibility for my own actions than lat my brother take the fall for me. I guess I'm just funny that way.
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And why people don't want to follow the rules set for us in the bible!
Some of them are meaningless. The Golden Rule is all we need for a moral guideline.
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And even if you fall back, you pray for forgiveness!
That's pretty convienient!
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Why do you want to be held guilty when the Lord returns?
Guilty of what?
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You really don't want to go to heaven after living in this evil-filled world?
Why not try to make the world a better place? I find this doctrine of calling the world evil irresponsible. The world isn't evil and children are not born evil.
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I'm having a hard time understanding why would anyone would NOT want to be in eternal life and happiness after death?!
I don't understand how people can look so forward to the afterlife when there is so much work to be done here.
Is it really so childish? Voting for him is just the beginning. It seems like he simply expected people to vote for him. Hell is reserved for those who wouldn't follow his rules here on Earth. But those rules really aren't asking so much if you think about it. Basically, they're all a test of moral and ethics. Breaking most of the rules are simply immoral and unethical. Why would God want his Kingdom full of people who are going to rape someone or cheat on their wife or murder or take more than one or two peppermints out of the bowl on the counter? He's really not asking so much.
Don't get me wrong I'm still weighing out the pros and cons of it all. But the main thing going on in my head is "Why would I take the chance of burning in Hell when all I have to do to avoid it is not be an immoral unethical waste of life." The last thing is to simply believe he exists and say that's why you live like that. I mean even if he really doesn't exist at the end of it all, what changes for you? Nothing. lol. Just seems like a stupid chance to take just because you want to reject the idea of it.
You seem to fall for the religious right' assumption that atheists are immoral, unethical etc. or that only one religion promotes the right morals and ethics.
Nor do I like that typical "all you have to do" talk. It sounds funny to me when religious people tell me all I have to do is accept and believe in something (that I wholeheartedly refuse) just to be on the safe side It is like saying to a gay person, if you want to avoid animosity all you have to do is love someone of the opposite sex ^^
You seem to fall for the religious right' assumption that atheists are immoral, unethical etc. or that only one religion promotes the right morals and ethics.
Nor do I like that typical "all you have to do" talk. It sounds funny to me when religious people tell me all I have to do is accept and believe in something (that I wholeheartedly refuse) just to be on the safe side
You completely misunderstood my point entirely. The whole thing was if you're already living a moral and ethical life in the first place then what's the problem? Just say it's for him and you don't burn for an eternity? Instead of saying he doesn't exist just because you don't want him to exist.
Also I take offense to being categorized into "Religious People" as I am not a religious person whatsoever. My view of it all changes daily. Most of the time I simply don't care one way or another. I simply accept the fact that I'm here and that's how it is. But I do hope to one day come to a final conclusion which I believe can only happen by debating on the subject with others such as yourself.
I don't recall saying that I completely agreed with everything I said but it was instead an idea formulated by reading your post and giving you or anyone else the chance to disagree and argue any point against it or agreeing with it. Either way my knowledge on the subject would have been furthered had your argument against it not have simply been a one of stubbornness.
I will never understand why extreme atheists are so condescending. I know you hate the preachers for it so why do you go and do it right back? Hypocrites. I don't mean to categorize them all into one but it's been my experience (Especially on this website) that radical atheist are ridiculously facetious and condescending.
That's not really what it's about though. In order to be saved by Jesus, you have to be condemned through Adam.
If you don't believe we are born evil (which I certainly do not) then there is nothing to be saved from.
Taken in that context, the death of Jesus was nothing more than the execution of a great teacher.
Why would I want to profit from his death when his teachings remain?
If the story is true, I would still refuse to be saved by Jesus because I refuse to take responsibility for the actions of Adam.
I simply do not believe in original sin. Makes absolutely no sense to me. Absolutely, if original sin was true and God made it so, the sin would be Gods, not ours.
If the arrow is off the mark, is it the arrow or the archer who takes the loss?
You completely misunderstood my point entirely. The whole thing was if you're already living a moral and ethical life in the first place then what's the problem? Just say it's for him and you don't burn for an eternity? Instead of saying he doesn't exist just because you don't want him to exist.
Let's assume you believe there is a god, do you think It is stupid and wouldn't know that I don't like or believe in It and only said so for egoistic reasons?
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Also I take offense to being categorized into "Religious People" as I am not a religious person whatsoever. My view of it all changes daily. Most of the time I simply don't care one way or another. I simply accept the fact that I'm here and that's how it is. But I do hope to one day come to a final conclusion which I believe can only happen by debating on the subject with others such as yourself.
I don't recall saying that I completely agreed with everything I said but it was instead an idea formulated by reading your post and giving you or anyone else the chance to disagree and argue any point against it or agreeing with it. Either way my knowledge on the subject would have been furthered had your argument against it not have simply been a one of stubbornness.
I will never understand why extreme atheists are so condescending. I know you hate the preachers for it so why do you go and do it right back? Hypocrites. I don't mean to categorize them all into one but it's been my experience (Especially on this website) that radical atheist are ridiculously facetious and condescending.
By religious people I did not necessarily mean you personally but anyone who argues in your vein, even if you were only playing the devil's advocate. From your posts I have not figured out yet what you really believe.
I am not an extreme atheist, I don't even know if I am an atheist, probably more of a pantheist, but certainly I don't believe in any personal gods etc. And it is difficult for me to respect people, especially grown-ups, who still fall the blackmail concept found in the bible and Koran.
What I have trouble understanding, is the attitude that there must be a life after death. Maybe there is, I don't know. But why should the thought of a heaven or hell change the way you live you life?
What I have trouble understanding, is the attitude that there must be a life after death. Maybe there is, I don't know. But why should the thought of a heaven or hell change the way you live you life?
Because with most religions one has to earn their way into heaven by living by certain rules and requirements.
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I don't want to be with gods like the one in the Bible/Koran, nor with Jesus.
It is like saying to a gay person, if you want to avoid animosity all you have to do is love someone of the opposite sex ^^
