Think traffic's bad now? It will get worse (Portland, Beaverton: buy, construction)

[oldtintype]

It makes absolutely no sense not to advocate for light rail (or public transport in general) across the river. Nope, they don't want to pay for it but things are NOT.GOING.TO.GET.BETTER. It just amazes me that they keep shooting themselves in the foot.

I live right by 405 and I watch the traffic that just crawls north in the evenings and I can't believe people really believe that being against public transport to Washington is even slightly intelligent.

The part that irritates me is that I live in Portland, yet I can't go anywhere north of where I live during commute times because it's not only 5, it's interstate, MLK, etc. that gets backed up with all the people going to washington. It will eventually paralyze all northern arteries.

[karlsch]

Originally Posted by oldtintype

It makes absolutely no sense not to advocate for light rail (or public transport in general) across the river. Nope, they don't want to pay for it but things are NOT.GOING.TO.GET.BETTER. It just amazes me that they keep shooting themselves in the foot.
............

Many are afraid that it would cause an increase in crime such as this in Vancouver. :
Gangs and crime ride into town on MAX, survey finds | Local & Regional | KATU.com - Portland News, Sports, Traffic Weather and Breaking News - Portland, Oregon
That's why they don't want light rail.

[Deezus]

Originally Posted by karlsch

Many are afraid that it would cause an increase in crime such as this in Vancouver. :
Gangs and crime ride into town on MAX, survey finds | Local & Regional | KATU.com - Portland News, Sports, Traffic Weather and Breaking News - Portland, Oregon
That's why they don't want light rail.

It's more so that crime is just getting higher on the eastside of Multnomah County and some that spills over into Clackamas County, because that's where the poorer residents of Portland end up these days with the gentrification of inner NE/N Portland.

There wasn't an increase in crime on N Interstate and in surrounding neighborhoods like Overlook, Arbor Lodge, and Kenton after the Yellow Line was built--in fact crime dropped in North Portland since it started running almost a decade ago. The reason though had not so much just to do with the MAX and more so that Interstate got cleaned up as the area got gentrified and some of the low-rent motels got torn down and the surrounding areas became pricier.

There's crime near MAX on the eastside because there's crime all over those areas--you can find areas of Powell or Division far from any MAX lines in outer SE that have a sketchy vibe and higher crime rates theses days. The idea that criminals just solely pick an area based on if they can get there on the MAX is funny.

[Jen54]

"I" stands for interstate I believe.... anyone feel free to correct me.

If Washington doesn't want it, then perhaps the state should invest that money in better connecting the area on this side of the river. It's not as if the road to Washington is the only traffic mess we have. Both 26 and 217 are complete disasters in the evening. I for one would be happy to see the money used to improve either the highways or public transit connecting Portland to the areas west of downtown.

Commuters from Washington can enjoy the satisfaction of not paying while they stew in traffic, and commuters in Oregon can enjoy better traffic flow and increased economic development on this side of the border.

[Deezus]

Originally Posted by JasonF

If Washington doesn't want it, then perhaps the state should invest that money in better connecting the area on this side of the river. It's not as if the road to Washington is the only traffic mess we have. Both 26 and 217 are complete disasters in the evening. I for one would be happy to see the money used to improve either the highways or public transit connecting Portland to the areas west of downtown.

Commuters from Washington can enjoy the satisfaction of not paying while they stew in traffic, and commuters in Oregon can enjoy better traffic flow and increased economic development on this side of the border.

Yeah, I'm all for that. They don't want to pay for it, they don't want light rail, they don't want tolls, let's keep Oregon's money in Oregon. I use I-5 or 205 north over the Columbia maybe twice a month max, I could care less...

[EnricoV]

Originally Posted by karlsch

Many are afraid that it would cause an increase in crime such as this in Vancouver. :
Gangs and crime ride into town on MAX, survey finds | Local & Regional | KATU.com - Portland News, Sports, Traffic Weather and Breaking News - Portland, Oregon
That's why they don't want light rail.

Oh, please. they don't want it because they're cheap. That's why they all (the commuters) live in Vancouver in the first place ... they think that means they don't have to pay as many taxes.

[oldtintype]

Originally Posted by karlsch

Many are afraid that it would cause an increase in crime such as this in Vancouver. :
Gangs and crime ride into town on MAX, survey finds | Local & Regional | KATU.com - Portland News, Sports, Traffic Weather and Breaking News - Portland, Oregon
That's why they don't want light rail.

Well, that's too bad. It's reality that the roads can't handle more traffic. They can make light rail (or some other form of public transportation) work, or they can stop driving into Portland.

[hamellr]

Originally Posted by oldtintype

The part that irritates me is that I live in Portland, yet I can't go anywhere north of where I live during commute times because it's not only 5, it's interstate, MLK, etc. that gets backed up with all the people going to washington. It will eventually paralyze all northern arteries.

Not just those roads. It can affect every major road in town. The only real way to fix it would be to continue 217 north and make a third river crossing. CRC never will, even with the addition of Light Rail and more lanes.

Even then, it'd still only be a temporary fix.

[bler144]

I agree with hamellr that the number of river crossings is a significant issue. Ideally you'd have a viable westside bypass up to longview for through traffic n/s, as well as a bridge further east. As is the road layout forces gorge/Gresham/eastPdx traffic that's northbound to come all the way into the snarl around the airport before turning north. The next nearest bridge is 50 miles upstream. Commuting from Troutdale to Camas, it can be 30+ minutes at rush despite being 2 miles as the crow flies. And it's not just that those people are inconvenienced - they're adding to the mass bogging down the system.

205 isn't quite as bad as I-5, but it's getting pretty bad. The bigger problem with 205 is arguably local - slow 205 creates backup on all the local roads with on-ramps which aren't well designed to handle that amount of volume backing up, and suddenly you have log-jams on 30-bypass, etc.

Personally I'm not convinced light rail will actually solve the I-5 congestion problem by itself. It would be one thing if Vanc-Pdx commuters all lived downtown and could walk to a single light rail station, but they're scattered. I don't see an obvious place to build a transit station that could be convenient/central enough and provide enough parking unless you repurpose the Fort grounds or something. For the cost, you'd arguably be better off with an express bus lane across the bridge and busing people to one of the existing MAX stops from multiple stations around Vanc (downtown, Cascade Park, etc.). And then you'd have less sunk cost if ridership didn't pan out - much easier to repurpose a traffic lane than light rail line.

The big issues with I-5 are that a) it carries too much through-traffic load for lack of viable bypass options, and b) the layout is horrible. In the 5 or so miles from I-405 to 14 you have essentially 13 off-ramps and 10 on-ramps (each direction). The inefficiency of local traffic merging back and forth is a big part of the problem, particularly when compounded with the fact that it's still the primary route for a sizable bulk of through-traffic.