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Old 05-11-2010, 08:55 AM
 
Location: New London County, CT
8,949 posts, read 12,149,846 times
Reputation: 5145

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...then why is the murder rate 2x the national average and car theft 3x the national average in Phoenix...

Hint: The answer is not illegal aliens...
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,827,375 times
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Let me guess. It must be interstellar aliens.
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Texas
380 posts, read 643,096 times
Reputation: 228
I'll take a little more freedom in exchange for a little less safety any day.
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:28 AM
 
Location: New London County, CT
8,949 posts, read 12,149,846 times
Reputation: 5145
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets View Post
I'll take a little more freedom in exchange for a little less safety any day.
No no no... The argument made by the gun lobby is that less stringent gun laws results in more people carrying, which results in safer communities...

Almost all of the concealed carry folks would make the argument that they carry, at least in part, for safety... So why isn't Arizona-- or at least the Phoenix area--- safer?
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Texas
380 posts, read 643,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
No no no... The argument made by the gun lobby is that less stringent gun laws results in more people carrying, which results in safer communities...

Almost all of the concealed carry folks would make the argument that they carry, at least in part, for safety... So why isn't Arizona-- or at least the Phoenix area--- safer?
I don't care whether the freedom to carry w/o a permit results in less or more safety, but rather I applaud the freedom to carry w/o a permit.

If the result is less safety so be it.
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:34 AM
 
Location: New London County, CT
8,949 posts, read 12,149,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets View Post
I don't care whether the freedom to carry w/o a permit results in less or more safety, but rather I applaud the freedom to carry w/o a permit.

If the result is less safety so be it.
So are you saying that the major argument by the pro-gun lobby that guns make us safer may be bogus?
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Texas
380 posts, read 643,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
So are you saying that the major argument by the pro-gun lobby that guns make us safer may be bogus?
I have not read a study on it so I cannot say. I do read the anecdotal evidence of individuals defending themselves all the time. I personally feel safer with home protection.

Most importantly, however, is that the 2nd Amendment is an essential part of American democracy. As the founding fathers knew, a well-armed populace is essential in the defense of a free state:

A tyrant coming to power at the federal level, through a military coup, illegal appointment, or fraud election, for example, is far outnumbered by the unorganized militia of the United States, consisting of every U.S. citizen between 18 and 45, and legally obligated by state laws to fight at the order of the governor in the event of insurrection, invasion, or war.

Like Ben Franklin said, anyone willing to sacrifice freedom for security in the end loses both.
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:43 AM
 
Location: New London County, CT
8,949 posts, read 12,149,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets View Post
Most importantly, however, is that the 2nd Amendment is an essential part of American democracy. As the founding fathers knew, a well-armed populace is essential in the defense of a free state:

A tyrant coming to power at the federal level, through a military coup, illegal appointment, or fraud election, for example, is far outnumbered by the unorganized militia of the United States, consisting of every U.S. citizen between 18 and 45, and legally obligated by state laws to fight at the order of the governor in the event of insurrection, invasion, or war.
Again, I am not talking about this mythical impending government overthrow that sounds to me a little paranoid...

I am simply asking why, if the NRA et al keep telling us that guns make us safer, why the statistics don't seem to bear this out...
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland
41,325 posts, read 44,981,416 times
Reputation: 7118
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
...then why is the murder rate 2x the national average and car theft 3x the national average in Phoenix...

Hint: The answer is not illegal aliens...
Sorry, but yes it is. The illegals have swarmed over the area, like a hoard of locusts.

Phoenix is also the kidnapping capital of the nation.
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
17,531 posts, read 24,715,644 times
Reputation: 9981
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlassoff View Post
...then why is the murder rate 2x the national average and car theft 3x the national average in Phoenix...

Hint: The answer is not illegal aliens...

Drug Cartels supplying Americas need for illegal drugs are the reason for the murder rate, as for stolen cars, you can take one and be in another country before it is reported.
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