How much is a good teacher worth? (Putin, Canada, military)

[kodaka]

Originally Posted by thriftylefty

before we decide what a teacher is worth lets decide what a good education is worth. There must a few People in poor neighborhoods sending their kids to poor performing schools who are driving a car and paying a bank $200.00-$400.00 am month to drive a nice car. That is prolly equal to the amount the state is paying to educate their kid. Who gets more value out of a well educated kid ,the parents or the community?
I was in brazil a while back and a guy who sidelined as a driver for me ,did it to pay for private education for his kids, he said many people do this . Imagine that, working a part time job so you can afford a better school for you kids. We never play the "personal responsibility" card when referring to kids who are not performing well in school. Its always bad schools and unskilled teachers. If one kid from a bad school graduates and goes to college does that prove that every student was given the same opportunity?

Plenty of poor people work second jobs in this country. Look around.

[thriftylefty]

Originally Posted by kodaka

Plenty of poor people work second jobs in this country. Look around.

but will they do to it send their kid to a private school or to make a car payment?

[tkhk3746]

With all due respect, Kodaka..your argument isn't credible. Comparing educators with doctors and lawyers??? LOL Perhaps you need to check out the pay grade again.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by thriftylefty

but will they do to it send their kid to a private school or to make a car payment?

I've known of people to do it for both reasons.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by thriftylefty

In the field of education they are way past "Talking the Talk" they are "Walking the Walk" Firings , Closings and take overs of systems.

You know where I live there are a few Dr.'s and Dentist who don't even take medical cards, They will say its the payment system, But people on Blue Cross and Blue Shield have better overall health, don't stink up their waiting rooms, and usually are getting routine care. It is not fair to compare the issues of a public entity with that of private business.

Private schools are doing quite well, teachers don't complain much.
I have been in a bunch of private schools around the country and wow! you cant believe the quality of education at these schools ,some are high end boarding schools and wow! I would not be exaggerating if I compared some these private boarding school middle school students to community college kids. But I understand the cost would be comparable to my entire income per child.

One of the main reasons for the success of private schools is that students are not allowed to disrupt the education of other children and are disciplined when they get out of line. The public schools are all about catering to children's fragile self-esteems and do not place high enough expectations in terms of learning and discipline. When teachers and parents place such low standards upon their achievements, then why are we surprised that our nation's children are failing in the public schools?

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by thriftylefty

before we decide what a teacher is worth lets decide what a good education is worth. There must a few People in poor neighborhoods sending their kids to poor performing schools who are driving a car and paying a bank $200.00-$400.00 am month to drive a nice car. That is prolly equal to the amount the state is paying to educate their kid. Who gets more value out of a well educated kid ,the parents or the community?
I was in brazil a while back and a guy who sidelined as a driver for me ,did it to pay for private education for his kids, he said many people do this . Imagine that, working a part time job so you can afford a better school for you kids. We never play the "personal responsibility" card when referring to kids who are not performing well in school. Its always bad schools and unskilled teachers. If one kid from a bad school graduates and goes to college does that prove that every student was given the same opportunity?

The issue I have is that teachers are blaming parents without looking at the faults within themselves and the system. I admit that it takes BOTH the cooperation of parents and an effective teacher to make learning happen.

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by thriftylefty

but will they do to it send their kid to a private school or to make a car payment?

I know folks who scrimp on every last dime to send their children to private schools but let me ask this. Why should parents be forced to pay private schools AND subsidize the public schools via taxes just so their children can gain an education? If the public schools were fulfilling their mandates, there would not be this backlash against the public schools. We, taxpayers, are so sick of pouring money into the schools (as much as 10K per kid in some areas) and not receiving the proper return on our investment. If the public schools cannot fulfill the mandates, then we need to overhaul or abolish the system.

[KevK]

Originally Posted by odinloki1

Seriously, I see all these posts villifying teachers and complaining about the need for performance based pay. What is the performance pay going to be?

If I were a teacher and my income/livelihood/whole career, is going to be based on whether little kids can behave in class, do what they're expected to do, and their parents make them do their homework at home. What would be in it for me? I can go in and give it my all and get through to 24/30 kids in a class (80%) but 6 goof off, don't care about any punishment in school because there's no accountability at home, and don't ever do homework, whats that worth? What if I get a transfer halfway through and he's practically a grade behind because where he was going to school, the teacher was a moron? Am I going to lose my income because of that? Families move all the time, especially in this economy.

Why should a persons income be tied to the actions of others? Its a recipe for driving talented intelligent people out of a profession. So how are you going to make it lucrative enough for the good ones to stay?

Lets hear something more creative than "whatever the market dictates"

I'd love answers for all of this from conservatives.

A well talented teacher is worth about $60,000 a year. An exceptional teacher would be worth about $80,000 a year.

[kodaka]

Originally Posted by tkhk3746

With all due respect, Kodaka..your argument isn't credible. Comparing educators with doctors and lawyers??? LOL Perhaps you need to check out the pay grade again.

I wasn't arguing pay grade, was I? Or did you not read?

The initial point of this thread--again, if you go back and READ--was that pay based on performance for teachers was unfair because too much of their work is dependent on outside factors, like school policies, and student body, and parental involvement, et cetera.

And I am pointing out that EVERY SINGLE OTHER OCCUPATION IN THE WORLD involves the influence of other players. No matter if they are paid $20k or $200k or $2 million, the pay is always based on factors that the worker doesn't have total control over. And yet the world manages just fine with this system. Teachers have no more right to argue their performance shouldn't be tied to pay than anyone else--regardless of what that pay is.

So your intended putdown isn't credible. L . O . L .

[Chatteress]

Originally Posted by KevK

A well talented teacher is worth about $60,000 a year. An exceptional teacher would be worth about $80,000 a year.

If society truly feels that teachers are worth that much, then we need to lower the salaries of the administrators to free up more funding for teacher salaries and classroom supplies. While we are at it, make teacher contributions to unions optional so that they can keep more money in their own pockets.