60 Minutes--"So This is Pulling the Plug on Granny" (ethics, attorney)
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I have enjoyed reading this thread. However, if the Harry Reid bill had been passed in 2001 I don't think I would have been able to read it. I am sure that Medicare would have been wiped out by the time I had my heart attack in 2005 and they would have just sent me back home to die which I would have done soon. The attack was not sever, at all. Almost no pain and that only for about 5 seconds in my upper arms. My local hospital did all they could to keep me quiet and get me past the original dangers and then sent me to a heart hospital. There I got a heart cath the next day and they found me with three heart arteries 85% plugged and three more 95% plugged. I had a 6 bypass surgery the third day there and survived. With that much plugging I would have gone out to do some hard work, people of 72 can do that, you know. I would have had one of those big ones and gone from this Earth.
Anyway they didn't send me home and I am back after 5 years able to do anything I could at 72. In fact, I am lifting heavier weights at unbelievable numbers of reps than I could at 72. Yep, at 77 I still work and do all kinds of exercise to keep all those people from having failed me.
Folks, if this bill had been in effect back then I wouldn't be here enjoying all your writing. I am sure glad I got this far and so are my family members.
Don't think that Living Wills are the answer to anything. My father had all the necessary papers on file at the hospital but when he passed on from pneumonia and a nurse's aide who didn't know about that resuscitated him he was not happy but had no choice. He died at 94 and then had to finish the job at 97. All the papers in the world wouldn't keep that from happening if a young lady walked in and found you dead and then brought you back. Luckily he had enough money to exist the next three years in a nursing home at over $3000 per month. It is cheaper out here in the sticks, you know.
Nice post, but as usual, nothing to do with the topic.
Many grandmas don't have living wills b/c they have no idea what it means not to have one. My in-laws had absolutely no idea what end of life care meant, even though my FIL was 97 when he went into the hospital for the last time (and subsequently died). When the hospital asked, by law, what they wanted to have done re: end of life care, at first, my MIL said "everything". My sister-in-law was with them and she was shocked. She had a little talk with MIL about just what this meant, and they changed him to a DNR (do not resuscitate). When you get right down to it, many people don't even have a legal will stating what to do with their estate, yet there is plenty of "common knowledge" about this document. Some think they don't need it b/c they don't have enough assets, some think it is "bad luck" to write one, and some just don't think death is ever going to happen to them, it's something that happens to other people.
You are incorrect that the purpose of end of life counseling is to get people to just die or makesure they die if the government thinks they should die. It is to get what the patient wants. You must have missed my earlier post where I quoted numerous senior citizens who said, "I don't want what happened to my mother (father) to happen to me.
It is a logical fallacy to a*s*s*ume that if someone's life is "saved" against their wishes that the opposite could happen as well. In the absence of a living will, the hospital/nursing home is OBLIGATED to do everything it can. In my father's case, it was a matter of judgement if he really was terminal.
People who are in their senior years have been around long enough to have heard of living wills. I think you should stop assuming you are superior to everyone who is over a certain age and that you should decide for them because you think they are too stupid and ignorant.
Most likely they heard of them at some point but didn't want one. Or they didn't want one very badly for their own reasons.
Still -- you're free to remind all your relatives of living wills -- but let them make up their own minds on their own lives.
I've heard of living wills -- I know everything about them and I don't have one. My choice, not yours.
Then who? Because it won't be the insurance companies will it?
It needs to be an individual decision and that's all. No one else should decide for another that it's time for them to die.
Living wills are sufficient, and when your loved one goes to the hospital and has a living will, just make sure they remember to put the DNR armband on them and there should be no problem. You won't have to worry about their health care using up your inheritance too much either if you do that.
And maybe fewer seniors would be confused by the living will if it were called what it actually is "death will", because in it you let them know you want to die, not live. Euphemisms can confuse things.
People who are in their senior years have been around long enough to have heard of living wills. I think you should stop assuming you are superior to everyone who is over a certain age and that you should decide for them because you think they are too stupid and ignorant.
Most likely they heard of them at some point but didn't want one. Or they didn't want one very badly for their own reasons.
Still -- you're free to remind all your relatives of living wills -- but let them make up their own minds on their own lives.
I've heard of living wills -- I know everything about them and I don't have one. My choice, not yours.
Now, that is just downright nasty of you. She nevernever made a remark that she was superior to people over a certain age, nor did she insult their intelligence.
You are amazing. You obviously still have got your knickers in a twist over this, when you clearly still have not even seen the 60 minutes piece that the rest of us are discussing.
You have been repeating your mantra of "living wills being the solution to the problem, no government needed"....
which the government has nothing to do with this topic on 60 Minutes
and then you turn around and claim that you don't have one? Talk about being part of the problem.
You have obviously not bothered to read this thread or watch the 60 Minutes episode, and yet you still think that posting your nasty stubborn comments is being helpful?
I must have been watching a different episode then. Medicare was mentioned every other word and the main theme of the segment was "Medicare spends $50 billion dollars a year to keep people at the end of their lives alive for a few extra weeks. Is this the best use of all that money?" Subordinate to that was the issue of right-to-life vs. right-to-choose.
Someone earlier suggested that right-to-life robs the budget of badly needed $$$$'s. For what? More endless wars? I agree that a large % of money is wasted on needless care, even to the extent of giving care to someone who is terminal anyway. What we need are cuts across the board---healthcare, military, entitlements, education----everything, and then begin to build the budget up from scratch, this time using our brains to think instead of our @zzes and allocate money equally to people's needs and to the military to provide the defense of THIS country, not faraway lands that have nothing to do with us.
I've heard of living wills -- I know everything about them and I don't have one.
That's fantastic, your expertise will come in handy for the discussion then. Are you a Medical Malpractice attorney, Medical Administration attorney, a Personal Injury attorney, or a Medical Defense attorney?
Advanced Healthcare Directives are so complicated, and the possibilites for configuration are endless, they even confuse me and I have been a nurse forever. I do however feel an ethical imperative to encourage older patients to discuss end-of-life care with their families, and preferably draw up a living will, so their wishes are honored. I'm sure all other experienced nurses, such as Katiana would share my opinion on that. You may consider it "feeling superior" over someone, I would consider it doing my job.
Now, that is just downright nasty of you. She nevernever made a remark that she was superior to people over a certain age, nor did she insult their intelligence.
You are amazing. You obviously still have got your knickers in a twist over this, when you clearly still have not even seen the 60 minutes piece that the rest of us are discussing.
You have been repeating your mantra of "living wills being the solution to the problem, no government needed"....
which the government has nothing to do with this topic on 60 Minutes
and then you turn around and claim that you don't have one? Talk about being part of the problem.
You have obviously not bothered to read this thread or watch the 60 Minutes episode, and yet you still think that posting your nasty stubborn comments is being helpful?
Have a nice Thanksgiving pal.
Yes she did. How would someone especially of a certain age NOT heard of living wills by now. They've been around for some time now. Certainly they have friends and family that may have discussed them. They watch television or read the news don't they?
And no I don't have a living will, not because I never heard the term but because I don't want to one. You people haven't made them a requirement yet, they're still a choice and not everyone chooses to have one.
How am I part of the "problem" by not having a living will? People who want to live even if they're past a certain age or in a wheelchair are now a "problem"?
Advanced Healthcare Directives are so complicated, and the possibilites for configuration are endless, they even confuse me and I have been a nurse forever. I do however feel an ethical imperative to encourage older patients to discuss end-of-life care with their families, and preferably draw up a living will, so their wishes are honored. I'm sure all other experienced nurses, such as Katiana would share my opinion on that. You may consider it "feeling superior" over someone, I would consider it doing my job.
But Death Panels won't be complicated? We don't need both. I'm fine with people getting Living Wills, that leaves the choice up to the individual.
A nurse isn't someone I want making any kind of life decision for me. I'll listen to my personal physician when that time comes. A physician who has consulted with surgeons, pathologists and other specialists, a combination of advanced medical degrees.
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