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I just get a sick feeling when I think about sexual acts between two men. In that sense, you could say that I "have something against gays". I couldn't be less concerned about lesbians.
Again, you've allowed your "sick feeling" to affect the way you view a particular group of people, and use this to justify unfair treatment and deny these people rights. Who cares you find gay sex disgusting?
70 years ago, you had people who thought (and still think) interracial sex is "disgusting". That doesn't give you or the government the right to deny these people the freedoms they deserve, does it?
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Originally Posted by anonymous
What was the deal with Christians? Was the guy telling the jokes a Christian? That one came out of nowhere.
Well, if you've read ANY of the negative, hostile, and hateful posts about gays on this very forum you'd see why I particularly target Christians. They're often times the FIRST ones to cast a stone, always telling others how they're sinning. Again, it's really NOT your place as a fellow, sinning, human being to tell ANYONE their a sinner.
Instead, as a Christian, it is your duty to love and accept everyone, and let God deal with your sins, as well as the sins of others. It's not your place to limit the rights of others and tell them they cannot marry or have equal protection under the law.
If you have a problem with gays, fine. But you and your religion have no place interfering in the Constitutional rights of every American born, tax paying, law abiding citizen.
Making jokes or saying insulting remarks about homosexuals is inappropriate behavior. But it's not a phobia. A phobia is an irrational fear or hatred of something. People can make jokes about homosexuals without having a fear or hatred of them. It would certainly be inappropriate and dumb, but it's not a phobia.
For years the homosexual and gay communities have been responding to discrimination by claiming they are victims of a phobia. Homophobia Indicating that straight people have a fear or hatred of them. Really it's a nice tactic. But it falls on its face when confronted with the facts. People should not act inappropriately, but when they do it doesn't necessarily mean they have a phobia.
This is an irrelevent argument. Phobia or not, those kinds of remarks are wildly inappropriate in such a setting, and I am amazed that a number of posters didn't see anything wrong with it.
I drew the comparison of the illegal immigrant comments because it's the same thing really. Phobia or not, you cannot make such statements in mixed professional settings.
You say the issue of homophobia "falls on its face when confronted with facts"....I guess that's no different from many Christians professing homosexuality is a sin despite the irrefutable scientific findings that show it is innate, in nature, and is a natural part of life in many living organisms.
Lindsay, I don't know what to say. You have posted about a comment made by someone, and how it was wrong for a person to be judgemental.
Then you rant, rave, name call, stereotype, villify, and argue with anyone who is different in their opinion.
Could you remind me who it is who lacks tolerance?
The only thing we should be judging others on is their character... so if yours shows ignorance and/or bigotry, it's perfectly acceptable to be intolerant of that. And no, I'm not saying YOU are this way, just using that as a general pronoun.
This is an irrelevent argument. Phobia or not, those kinds of remarks are wildly inappropriate in such a setting, and I am amazed that a number of posters didn't see anything wrong with it.
I drew the comparison of the illegal immigrant comments because it's the same thing really. Phobia or not, you cannot make such statements in mixed professional settings.
You say the issue of homophobia "falls on its face when confronted with facts"....I guess that's no different from many Christians professing homosexuality is a sin despite the irrefutable scientific findings that show it is innate, in nature, and is a natural part of life in many living organisms.
Same concept, huh?
Yes indeed... but some people refuse to see their own hypocrisy, especially when faced with indisputable facts. And I agree, the actual definition of homophobia is irrelevant, since it's now used to describe a general intolerance of gay people. Whether or not somebody is actually AFRAID of them doesn't matter, since their behavior is really the issue here.
The only thing we should be judging others on is their character... so if yours shows ignorance and/or bigotry, it's perfectly acceptable to be intolerant of that. And no, I'm not saying YOU are this way, just using that as a general pronoun.
So if someone is a really nice person, treats gays exactly as nice as heteros, but feels that homosexuality is a sin, its okay to start up the slandering, name calling, stereotyping, religion hating machine?
There is a big difference in the following:
Bob is gay.
Joe thinks gays are wrong.
Bill is gay.
Robert thinks Bill is a cool guy and is friends with him, but has a personal belief that homosexuality is wrong, however Bill is free to do as he pleases and Robert doesn't see fit to condemn or mistreat Robert in any way.
I have a friend who gambles a lot, and I think gambling is a sin, but I never treat him differently, or hold it against him, nor do I lecture or preach to him that he should feel the same way as me.
Is that okay too? Or should all gamblers now be intorent of me?
Gay is neither normal nor is it natural....
Gay isn't something you are born with.... Gay is something that is instilled at a very young age by way of upbringing or environment.
I've noticed that through my studies, more of those who would be gay, were the ones prone to abuse at the hands of household members. Mostly on the emotional end.
Who are you to make such broad statements about gays? You're no scientist, geneticist, or human sexuality expert. What exactly makes you think you have any place to make such statements?
I guess since GiftShoppeGuy, who lives in Montana, by the way, thinks homosexuality is a choice, brought on by abuse and trauma, that somehow outweights the SCIENTIFIC findings from the American Psychological association, human sexuality studies, and various other organizations?
I was the victim of SEXUAL and EMOTIONAL abuse at the hands of my own male cousin. I didn't turn into a lesbian. Your agument is weak, it's innaccurate, and it's foolish.
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Originally Posted by GiftShoppeGuy
Gay is only normal, for the ones that are, and it is not normal for the rest of us, nor is it a natural occurance.
Tell that to Ted Haggard, or any of these other so-called "ex-gays". Living their lives in denial, not being to own up to their own sexual and emotional desires for members of the same sex.
Statistically speaking, many of you I'm sure wrestle and deal with your own same sex attractions; afterall, sexuality is a continuom. Very few people are 100% heterosexual, or 100% homosexual.
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Originally Posted by GiftShoppeGuy
So long as gay exists, there will always be a majority that will oppose it.
Well, gay will always exist. It's certainly not going to go away, just like short people, or unattractive people won't go away.
And I disagree about their always being a majority that will oppose it. Younger people understand science, they accept science, and they see religion, particularly the Bible and Christianity for what it often is; a damaging, outdated, and inaccurate account.
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Originally Posted by GiftShoppeGuy
As a society, it is our nature to scorn and/or ridicule that of which may not be considered normal or natural.
Yep, just like as a "society" it was acceptable to place Japanese into internment camps because they stood out as non-whites, just as it was acceptable to enslave African Americans, just as it was acceptable to deny women the right to vote.
Because you know, Asians were inferior, blacks were inferior, and women were inferior.
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Originally Posted by GiftShoppeGuy
As soon as we get it through our heads that gay is more to do with "human condition" than it is anything else, we may be able to finally start making some headway in discovering it's core causes and take corrective actions in order to prevent it in the future.
Remind me again who you are and what qualifies you to make these statements? Everything you've written goes against the findings of various studies that have been conducted, and also defies the findings of gay animals in nature.
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Originally Posted by GiftShoppeGuy
Mental illness shouldn't be scoffed at or ridiculed, but it is, unfortunately. Schizophrenia was a condition that wasn't fully understood for years, and those that had it, had to go through quite a bit of ridicule because of it. It's now the same with those who would be gay. Being ill in in such a fashion as that, certainly cannot be an easy thing, as our overall ignorance will sometimes cause a delay in discovering and dealing with the source of the illness itself. In the mean time, the one who might be ill or otherwise gay, will continue to suffer.
Right. Because the APA removed homosexuality from it's list in 1973, yet you still choose to believe what the professionals have already realized; that it's not a mental illness.
So if you choose to continue to think in a close-minded and ignorant fashion, theres little I, or anyone else can do to change your attitude. Quite unfortunate.
After he was done, he said, "How 'bout them gays". And without hesistation, infront of everyone, I said "Our daughter is gay, and I don't think you're in any place to judge her that way".
There was a gasp at the table and everyone went quiet. The guy making the jokes got completely red, got quiet and didn't say much for the rest of the dinner...
If you're such a Christian, you'd know the Bible teaches tolerance and LOVE, not hate.
You should see people's reaction when they talk about "the Jews." I let them go on, then tell them I'm Jewish. "Oh, oh! I didn't mean YOU!"
The reaction gets even more interesting when I tell them I'm not Jewish, but my relatives risked their lives in Hitler-era Germany to protect them as best they could, so they ought to think about what they are saying, who they are saying it to, and how it makes them sound.
Lindsay59, good for you for speaking up for your daughter. I'll betcha there is at least one person within earshot of that conversation who has a gay child or family member and is too afraid to say anything.
So if someone is a really nice person, treats gays exactly as nice as heteros, but feels that homosexuality is a sin, its okay to start up the slandering, name calling, stereotyping, religion hating machine?
There is a big difference in the following:
Bob is gay.
Joe thinks gays are wrong.
Bill is gay.
Robert thinks Bill is a cool guy and is friends with him, but has a personal belief that homosexuality is wrong, however Bill is free to do as he pleases and Robert doesn't see fit to condemn or mistreat Robert in any way.
I have a friend who gambles a lot, and I think gambling is a sin, but I never treat him differently, or hold it against him, nor do I lecture or preach to him that he should feel the same way as me.
Is that okay too? Or should all gamblers now be intorent of me?
Again, no one cares whether you personally believe homosexuality to be wrong. That's not the issue here, and you continue to miss the point.
The issue is that you are in no place to make statements in public disparaging gays. Just as you are in no place to make such remarks in public about blacks, Mexicans, Asians, or any other group you may deem "unacceptable".
You and your religion are also in no place to deny or limit the rights of people you find "unacceptable". You find homosexuality wrong? Fine.
That doesn't mean you can use your religion to keep these people from marriage, or civil union; a Constitutional right that would give them equal protection under the law.
Lindsay, I don't know what to say. You have posted about a comment made by someone, and how it was wrong for a person to be judgemental.
Then you rant, rave, name call, stereotype, villify, and argue with anyone who is different in their opinion.
Could you remind me who it is who lacks tolerance?
Well, it took a while but I read the entire thread. This one post says it all, tnbound2day. Intolerance ABOUNDS in our society and we all know it, witness it and even participate in it at times (we are human...) and THEN, like Lindsay - we become the intolerant! Get our feelings every time somebody says or does something that we don't like or that goes against our grain.
Hypocrisy is probably the bigger of the evils here - bigger than intolerance, that's for sure.
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And I agree, the actual definition of homophobia is irrelevant, since it's now used to describe a general intolerance of gay people. Whether or not somebody is actually AFRAID of them doesn't matter, since their behavior is really the issue here.
