White people--do you actually realize that you are part of a racial group? (Mexicans, drug)

[diva360]

Originally Posted by Reelist in Atlanta

Very true. Whites are a racial group. Whites are just not allowed to recognize that fact. Whites are not allowed to advocate for their race. Whites are not allowed to vote for a white candidate just because he's white. Whites are not allowed to patronize a business simply because it's white owned. Whites are not allowed to segregate themselves from other races. Whites are not allowed to start or join white advocacy organizations. Whites are labeled racist for doing the same things that other races do on a regular basis.

- Reel

How are they "not allowed" to vote in a certain way or talk about things in a certain way? I just don't get it. I think white people (we) can pretty much do what we want. There is a difference between getting to do somthing with impunity and getting to do something without being called on it. I don't see how the fact that white people might get criticized here and there means that white people have less freedom. Please explain.

[Joe_Ryder]

Originally Posted by Randomstudent

Table 5 might help it correlates offenders by race with types of crimes and confirms per my original response to the point made by Mr. Joshua that "When I hear about a group of blacks attacking a white person using racial slurs and they are prosecuted using hate crimes laws, then I'll admit you were right." The data in table 5 suggests that among the known offenses committed by known Black offenders 394 were anti-white hate crimes. This data suggests that indeed hate crimes laws are enforced against Black, anti-White hate crimes.

Table 5- Hate Crime Statistics 2007 (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2007/table_05.htm - broken link)

Much better way to present supporting data. But, it's still lacking the one key component you need.

I'm not quite ready to accept your position not because I disbelieve you but because if you look closely at the numbers, they are obviously skewed. This is due probably to the extremely broad definition of white. Doesn't it seem a bit odd that nearly 40% of the offenders prosecuted for hate crimes against whites happened to be white? Not impossible but odd nonetheless.

I'm still not convinced but am open to viewing more evidence. To prove your point to Mr. Joshua, all you need is to provide just one single and specific case. The problem with stats is that they provide no specifics and can quite easily be in error due to simple error and/or cross-classifications and double entries caused by overlap. To prove your point, you need specifics. In this case you need only one so you sort of lucked out. Find a specific case and this one's yours.

[VLWH]

Originally Posted by diva360

How are they "not allowed" to vote in a certain way or talk about things in a certain way? I just don't get it. I think white people (we) can pretty much do what we want. There is a difference between getting to do somthing with impunity and getting to do something without being called on it. I don't see how the fact that white people might get criticized here and there means that white people have less freedom. Please explain.

A good example would include a simple search of this board. Many threads have been started on various topics such as, posters looking for Asian, Hispanic, African-American, etc..., communities to relocate. The replies were bascially civil and gave the OP replies without questioning their motive. Now one person started a thread asking where were any predominantly white communities were located and was immediately labeled a racist.

In the celebrity forum there is a thread asking what people thought was the most attractive African-American actress was. Now just what would you think would happen if I started a thread that asked people who they thought was the most attractive White actress was?

[diva360]

Originally Posted by VLWH

A good example would include a simple search of this board. Many threads have been started on various topics such as, posters looking for Asian, Hispanic, African-American, etc..., communities to relocate. The replies were bascially civil and gave the OP replies without questioning their motive. Now one person started a thread asking where were any predominantly white communities were located and was immediately labeled a racist.

In the celebrity forum there is a thread asking what people thought was the most attractive African-American actress was. Now just what would you think would happen if I started a thread that asked people who they thought was the most attractive White actress was?

That's the difference between being allowed to do things with impunity--i.e., free of consequences, even if those consequences only involve some criticisms from people you don't even know--and doing or saying things and then getting called on it. Being held responsible for things you do or say is not discrimination. It's part of being an adult.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by KevK

I am not white. I am Irish and Osage. I do not check any categories on forms and never have. And until they put one that says "none of my GD business" I won't choose a category.

Judging by your Profile: you are de facto White.

I am 1/2 Hungarian, 1/4 English and 1/4 Irish as far as I can find out----------and, I self identify as an Anglo (non Hispanic) White man. There may be a smidge of American Indian (probably Powhatan) in my lineage but DNA testing did not reveal it.

[Blue Grass Fever]

Originally Posted by diva360

I am posting this thread, which I expect to be controversial, because I realized yesterday that someone, as a fellow white person, was thoroughly convinced that whiteness wasn't a racial category, and therefore he had been arguing against hate crime legislation because he thought it only applied to what he called "special groups," which, by his definition, only included people who were either homosexual or people who weren't white. I pointed out that the category "white people" was itself a special group, so it wasn't necessarily excluded from hate crimes legislation. In other words, he was making the argument that straight white men weren't a "protected group" under such legislation, and that made him feel excluded. I was making the argument that yes, in fact, he was. White males are among the groups--which include us all--that hate crime legislation protects. If someone was killed specifically because they were white, they could be prosecuted under hate crimes legislation. Likewise, if someone were killed because they were straight, their killers could also be prosecuted under such legislation. This concept seemed to be either so revelatory or so basic that he never responded back.

That's why I decided to post that concept here because it might prove to be equally instructive. Straight and white people, I'd like you to know from a fellow straight and white person that you also belong to a group that is marked by its racial and sexual orientation characteristics, and when you get mad about how hate crimes protect "special groups of people," you reveal your ignorance of the fact that you are also a member of a "special group of people." It's possible that you might be a victim of a hate crime, just like someone else might. The most important point I'm trying to make is that being white and straight is not the normal, unmarked state of being against which every other state of being should be measured. If you really think it is, then you really should try to get over the special status you think your state of being confers. You are not that special--every other member of every other group has just as legitimate a claim to feel safe as you do. I think if we all admitted that, the world would be a better place. If you, straight and white people, were victimized because of who you are, wouldn't you want that context to be taken into account? I think you would, and quiet as it's kept, I'm just sayin' that that is the case, and for the past several hundred years, it always has been.

I usually don't like to reply on threads such as these, but you raise a good point. It's been part of the social construct over so many years that people have been dumbed down in regards to "races" and the "one-drop rule". The "white" race, whatever that really means, believes they are the ones to supposed to be superior to everyone else.

[Houston3]

Originally Posted by diva360

How are they "not allowed" to vote in a certain way or talk about things in a certain way? I just don't get it. I think white people (we) can pretty much do what we want. There is a difference between getting to do somthing with impunity and getting to do something without being called on it. I don't see how the fact that white people might get criticized here and there means that white people have less freedom. Please explain.

There are to many links to list, but I bet you wont find any with "White" in their names... So I just put the link to google.

houston black police officers union - Google Search

[malamute]

Most whites are not part of a racial group in the way that others might be. Whites don't look in the mirror and see whiteness, they don't pass by another white on the street and see a "brother". Whites with money don't look at poor whites they don't know at all and feel some kind of kinship. Most whites have very little desire to join a race group. Most whites that have ancestors that came long ago from some other country, don't believe that because of that, that entire country has a right to move here legally or otherwise.

[renault]

He was making the argument that straight white men weren't a "protected group" under such legislation

He is correct.

[diva360]

Originally Posted by malamute

Most whites are not part of a racial group in the way that others might be. Whites don't look in the mirror and see whiteness, they don't pass by another white on the street and see a "brother". Whites with money don't look at poor whites they don't know at all and feel some kind of kinship. Most whites have very little desire to join a race group. Most whites that have ancestors that came long ago from some other country, don't believe that because of that, that entire country has a right to move here legally or otherwise.

Precisely my point. Being white is not the natural state of being in the U.S., much as some white people think it is or should be. That's what my OPost said.